Microsoft rumored to invest in Cyanogen following promise to take Android from Google


microsoft logo building sign open

Well, how’s this for an early Thursday afternoon headline? According to the Wall Street Journal, Microsoft is planning to invest a nice grip of money into Cyanogen Inc, makers of the most popular custom ROM around.

Microsoft will apparently be a minority investor in a $70 million round of equity investing that would end up placing a valuation on Cyanogen worth hundreds of millions of dollars. As a minority investor Microsoft won’t be the only ones at the table, nor would they be dishing out the most money to infuse this startup with cash.

But what it does bring is a strong message by Microsoft that they’re willing to do whatever they need to help balance out a lopsided race for smartphone software dominance. Why do we say that? Because Cyanogen — just earlier this week — started flexing their own muscle by declaring that they wanted to somehow take Android back from Google.

cyanogenmod logo 5

“I’m the CEO of Cyanogen. We’re attempting to take Android away from Google,” exclaimed Kirk McMaster in front of a crowd of press at a San Francisco event earlier this week. You might be wondering how it’d be possible for Cyanogen to do that considering Google owns Android, but it’s important to understand what he means.

As it stands, Android is open source, and its source code can be freely downloaded by anyone who so chooses. That likely won’t change anytime soon as Google has kept its long-standing promise to keep Android open and free.


But it’s long been accepted that the “sweetest” Android you can get is one with access to the Google Play Store, YouTube, Google Search and all of the other key Google services at the ready. The problem is Google limits (legal) access to these services to those willing to put up with restrictive licensing agreements, and CyanogenMod doesn’t like that.

While they’ve admitted their bread and butter has been and most likely always will be Android, their hope is to be able to build an ecosystem for it that’s more open-ended and free than the one Google maintains. The difficulty of such a task is sure to be high and they won’t be able to do it alone, which certainly explains the need to get the likes of Microsoft and supposedly Amazon on board.

Cyanogen — whose custom ROM McMaster says has been installed on over 50 million devices to date — does have enough clout to make such a bold move, but questions have to transform after today’s report: what’s Microsoft’s end-game in this? Are they genuinely interested in creating a better ecosystem for Android or do they simply want to help fatten up a talented development house to potentially swallow up later on?

It would be surprising to see the latter situation take place considering Cyanogen is said to have turned down an offer from Google that would have valuated themselves at $1 billion, though the company’s newly-revealed motive might explain why they made that tough decision. One thing’s for sure, though: if Cyanogen made a big enough case to get a major player like Microsoft interested then they certainly must have a strong plan in place to make this happen.

Quentyn Kennemer
The "Google Phone" sounded too awesome to pass up, so I bought a G1. The rest is history. And yes, I know my name isn't Wilson.

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  1. I’m rather confused about how I feel about this. . .

    1. And that alone should give you an indication about how you feel about this.. awkward seems like 1 word.

    2. It’s been widely speculated that Microsoft makes more money off of Android OEMs than their own Windows Phone OS, which only has a measly 3% global marketshare. As long as Android is succeeding, Microsoft is making money. The past year, Microsoft has been upping their Android game, adding their entire suite of applications to the Google Play Store. Microsoft has Google’s version of Android covered.
      It was reported today that 1.3 billion Android devices shipped in 2014. That’s insane. To add a little perspective, it took Apple 7 years to cumulatively hit the 1 billion device mark. Android devices do that in a year. It’s also a good bet to say that roughly 1/3 of those devices are shipping without Google’s services, such as those in China, a massive market. Every company out there, including Microsoft, is trying to cash in on these emerging markets. It would be smart for them to pay attention to this region as mobile continues to explode there.

      Who’s moving into these regions that are up for the picking? Cyanogen. China has top quality phone manufactures that most people haven’t heard of outside of their homeland. These OEMs are at a breaking point. They want to expand, but frankly their OS’s only work in their market. Typical OS’s from the Chinese market launch with Android version X and never go beyond that version. Someone needs to help them with that. Without someone, they’ll never have success in western markets. Cyanogen seems to want to be that someone.

      Additionally, Cyanogen’s CEO said that he wishes to take Android away from Google in a recent interview. Well, if that isn’t ambitious, I don’t know what is? Google’s version of Android accounts for the vast majority of those devices and when you boil down to it, you have nothing without an ecosystem behind it. That’s why Tizen, Firefox OS, Ubuntu Phone, and others are not making any ground. The uphill battle is immense.

      Microsoft has an ecosystem and the cash to continue to fuel one. It’s tough to make an Android fork and go at it alone. Could Microsoft be interested in partnering with Cyanogen on this venture? It’s definitely a bold move by them, just as equally as bold as Kirt McMaster’s statement about his company’s proposed goals.

  2. It’s amazing how far they have come

  3. I foresee this being a bad idea for both parties.

    1. Maybe less for Microsoft, but I could see this not being taken well by the dev community and users.

    2. More like a tax write off

  4. just proves…don’t try to create a product instead solve a problem. Carriers and manufactures created the problem by locking down features and adding bloatware and these guys solved it. Good for them.

  5. yawn.

    I have absolutely zero faith that they’ll be able to create an entirely forked ecosystem. Other bigger players (coughAmazongcough) have tried and failed.

    1. Maybe the goal is not to fork it, but to hurt it from the inside.. like a Virus. We all know how much Microsoft is like a virus, maybe that is the angle, but they put a nice shiny outward face on it.

      1. Theres no doubt MS would rather WP to succeed but that doesn’t appear to be the case. This is probably a sign that they are starting to realise this and feel they should start with just getting their services into the hands of customers.
        I wouldn’t be surprised if MSes goal now is to get their services popular and then show the industry “Hey look, since you are using our services why not buy a Windows handset where the services work the best” – its what they did with PC’s.

    2. Problem with Amazon is the product. If it were a group of good products, they’d be doing far better. It’s not like they are creating what we want. CyanogenMod is.

    3. Microsoft has much more sway with carrier than Amazon or Google. If they can get a device on a major carrier, it’ll be a big blow to Google’s Android.

  6. not sure if I understand this correctly. Microsoft wants to invest in Cyanogen in hopes of helping them achieve the goal of loosening Google’s restrictions on Google services? How does that benefit Microsoft?

    1. My suspicion is Microsoft is hedging their bets. Windows Phone hasn’t done as well as they’d hoped. A lot of people thought it would die when Ballmer left. If WP10 doesn’t do better, maybe they’ll ditch WP and go Android with Microsoft services instead of Gapps. Having Cyanogen on board would make that transition easier.

      1. what i see coming is some conglomerate of Cyamogen, Microsoft, and Amazon! youd get Cyanogen OS with Microsoft Office and services and Amazons app market!

      2. Brilliant. Seriously.

      3. All Microsoft has to do is say they won’t charge any licensing to put all their services on the device and Cyanogen overnight has replaced Google. It’s all making sense from a business standpoint. From a consumer stand point who cares.

        1. Wouldn’t and couldn’t happen overnight… MS and Cyanogen have no replacement for the Play Store with 100 of thousands of apps.

    2. May be MS feels that if an OEM wants to have Google maps and Outlook but no Google Gmail then they should be allowed to do that. This goes with all Google apps and MS apps – should be able to pick and chose. At the moment they can’t do that.

  7. What exactly are these “restrictions to Google services”? I use almost every Google service and have no qualms with any of them.

    So what exactly does CM plan on doing? If someone could elaborate this a little further I’d appreciate it.

    1. You are misunderstanding it. The restrictions are placed on developers that want to include Google services in their roms. If you ever install CM or any other AOSP based rom you will also have to install GAPPS. These can’t be included in the rom or the Dev would have to license them from Google. This is Cyanogen, Inc’s complaint.

      1. I see. Thanks! That makes sense. Though why is that an issue for CM? Android would be crippled without the Google service, so only makes sense for Google to make it mandatory?

        1. Its an issue because Google claims android to be open source when it kind of isn’t. As you stated it’s crippled without Google services. cyanogen Inc is saying they want to take open source android and pull it away from Google. Makes me think they want to make it truly function without Google services. We shall see I guess.

          1. Gotcha. I guess I can kinda see CM’s POV now. Thanks!

          2. I suspect Cyanogen doesn’t like the fact that if you want one of the Google services you actually have to take the whole bundle but you might want only be interested in taking the best service from each vendor rather than taking all from just one vendor.

          3. Would that mean that every app in the Cyanogen app store would be required to be open source as well. Where is the line in the sand. If you hook directly into the OS you must be open source. It would be very cool to have an app store where 100% of the revenue, minus a few % that would have to go to visa and banks, goes to the developers.

        2. Also because Cyanogen, Inc is a legit company unlike cyanogenmod. So Cyanogen, Inc is paying Google licensing in order to put out their OS with Google services. I’m sure that hits their bottom line and they don’t like it.

          1. But the thing is, they can already do this. Amazon has already done this. The only time they run into an issue is when they want access to the Playstore, without installing Google’s suite of services. Google’s Android, which includes their services including the Playstore, has never been open source. AOSP OTOH has always been. So what they’re planning to do has always been possible, but no ones had much success with it, other than Amazon, and that’s iffy to say the least. But the thing is, Google’s Playstore, once the Android Market, has been around and building for a long time. Others could do the same, but it’s going to take awhile to get there and most businesses don’t want to take that long to grow something like that. There’s also the issue of revenue, which Google is able to offset with ads.

            What they’d be smart to do, if all three, Cyanogen, Microsoft, and Amazon go into this all the way, not piecemeal, and combine their strengths. Like someone else here alluded to, Amazon and Microsoft have appstores, and Cyanogen has a good software base. Put those three together and they may be able to run with Google and Apple. Hell they could throw in Blackberry, let them handle security and combine with Microsoft to handle Enterprise. The problem is getting former competitors to work together. If everyone can check their egos at the door, it could have a shot.

        3. Because with Google it is an all or nothing. To gets the Google services you have to sign up to the OHA and that comes with what some might consider draconian conditions.

  8. So is the goal of the MS investment to try to bog and slow Cyanogen down like they are to kill it off and hurt the Android brand? The destruction takes place from the inside out? Is that their investment goal? To invest to hurt it in the end. Well, they just might succeed if that is the goal as already, by this headline, I am bummed with Cyanogen on (1) this type of investment partner and (2) a seemingly nutty statement like “We’re attempting to take Android away from Google”

    1. I think the goal is to have a branch of Android OS with MS services on it as opposed to Google services. This move might be so that MS gets early access to Android development so they can ensure their services work on each version as soon as possible.

  9. Common sense. Divide and conquer.

  10. For instance, let’s look at the decision to get Nokia. And have Android on it when that flop Elop likened it to urinating. This smells worse than the log that felled the Tidy Bowl Man.

  11. Microcyanokiasoft

    1. Well that just rolls off the tongue! Haha

    2. You always got a way of explaining things so I can understand Lt. Dan. ;-)

      1. Lmao cheers! :-D

    3. Can’t wait for the Cyanoscreen of Death!

  12. I don’t care for the way this is being handled… building up investment partners to build your company is one thing; but to make such crazy claims as to take something away from it’s owner and open it up is lunacy in my opinion, especially when it’s free and already open.

    1. Google is not the owner of Google OS as it is open source. At best they are the maintainer but there are other Android forks already. What Google own is the trademark and that will not change anytime soon.

  13. This seems appropriate here…

    1. I remember that episode, haha. Well done, man.

  14. I’ve been afraid of infighting and crap like this leading to Android’s eventual downfall for some time. Cyanogen Inc has made one blunder after the other since they became incorporated. First the whole debacle with Micromax and now this BS along with that kind of mindless statement? Let’s hope this isn’t the beginning of the beginning of the end.

  15. I see the decline of Cyanogen. They are half cocked and make me nervous as to their future and how poorly they make friends or well they make enemies. What can’t they do right now that would be different than what someone like Amazon has already done. They made their own store for Android and other apps and their own android based os. Maybe they don’t like the advantage that Google has with the control but it’s all things that don’t impact me as a consumer.

    1. Actually anyone can take Android source and bundle it with different services and provide it to the same OEM’s that Google does. Amazon has been doing this for years, Samsung are trying to do it, many Chinese manufacturers do it and MS could do it if they wanted to. Better that Canogen keep them in check rather than have them doing a run around.

      1. That’s good point. I hate how Amazon has done things. Basically locking Google out and forcing the hand. Pretty much the same as Apple. I won’t be happy with Cyanogen either if they don’t allow you to choose stores and accounts etc. Movie apps. Music. etc.

  16. Cyanogen Corp. has turned into a rolling clown car.

    Here is what I see. Microsoft hasn’t had success with Windows Phones. They captured negligible market share. So they buy invest in Cyanogen Corp., an Android OS provider. They pump out phones with Cyanogen OS (lacking Google Play Services). Microsoft swoops in and adds their own services. They have the benefit of an experienced OS group and can merge with their own in house app devs.

    Didn’t this already happen with the Nokia X?

    1. The can do this with or without Cyanogen. Properly better deal them in at the table rather than have them at another table. Don’t get me wrong…MS has a history of FUD and EEE but with each iteration of Android from Google they are looking more and more like MS. Best let these two butt heads together for a while and maybe Android will become free of both.

  17. Can’t wait till One plus drop them and launch their own ROM. Google makes android what android is today, and its only getting better Android Orio is a couple years away guys.

    1. Too bad they couldn’t make it better by making it less restrictive. Read the terms of the OHA agreement.

      1. Right… So Google should do all the work and license Android with no benefits to themselves. Makes sense. /s

        If Google can’t monetize Android, how will Android survive?

        1. Google bought Android to ensure they were not refused a seat at the mobile table. As long as Android is stable and performs well they have ensured that. Now it appears they want to make sure they are the only player at the table – how the tables have turned.

  18. Kondik is a money magnet.

  19. Kondik is a sell out.

    1. Or he may save the whole ecosystem

      Understand that the Cyanogenmod vision is vastly different and likely better than Google’s. They need money to stay relevant and grow so that there are real options with Android; Google is slowly neutering AOSP — so this isn’t selling out, in fact it may be saving the Android that we love from becoming like iOS.

      1. I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying, but does taking money from Microsoft really help them there? How long will MS keep their fingers out of Cyanogen (and thusly AOSP)?

        1. This. Cyanogen has not been on a phone of mine for a couple of years now. And now they’re in bed with MS? Geez.

          1. Same here I’ll never install cm again.

        2. As long as they don’t own more than 50%.

          1. In business it doesn’t REALLY work that way

            I don’t know how the agreement is structured, but Steve had something that MS wanted and he’s still got the keys to the castle, despite not having the deepest pockets in the deal.

        3. Does it matter? The Microsoft of today is much more open than Google so having them involved in the process wouldn’t be so terrible.

          1. Did you just say ‘Micro$oft’ and ‘open’ in the same sentence? Those are the same people that called Linux a cancer. They shouldn’t even be considering Android.

        4. Good thought; either way though, It’s competition. MS is just hedging their bets in case Windows Phone never gets legs.

      2. The Google / Android ecosystem is the best it’s ever been, stop exaggerating.

      3. Rooted Android is far off superior than any Jailbreaked IPhone.
        Root comes with a power to be the real administrator of ur phone giving u super access to the whole system. But such is not true for IOS.
        Giving ur branded name to the OS that is built for the community, can’t they have some self respect to have some controlled terms and condition. It’s all Google behind Android. We shud adore that.

        1. Let me first begin by saying you have not the slightest clue of what you’re talking about. iOS jailbreaking gives you root on a system that’s far closer to UNIX (you get a real bash shell, all the core utilities, real dpkg, etc. — not some chroot neutered BS) than a rooted Android device. Arguably, MobileSubstrate for iOS is a more powerful (and wayyyy more secure) code injection mechanism than Xposed

          1. Agreed, I don’t know bout em taking bout IOS.. But does that give us privilege to control power resources and hardware management accomplished via custom “Kernels” like we do in ur so called BS Android.

            P.S. I still don’t know what em really saying.

  20. Well that’s the nail on the coffin for waiting on a OP2. Nice knowing ya Cyanogen, you’re crazy.

    As crippled as Android may be without Gapps, it still functions as a smart phone. Because Google has built a great ecosystem does NOT mean these companies can get it for free. You want a good ecosystem? Either build it or pay up.

    1. Spoken like a true Google fanboy. What’s wrong with taking the restrictive components away from Google? The OHA agreement is very restricitive. Rumours are Google have stopped OHA members on more than one occasion from releasing non-Google Android handsets because the OHA agreement means you can only exclusively sell Google Android handsets which means you also have to include all the Google services. So much for being free and open.

      1. It’s a system they’ve built up and by having these companies pay them they’re able to maintain and upgrade that system. You want the end user to pay then?

        Rumours. Then why is Amazon successfully releasing devices (sans phone) with their own version of Android? Nokia as well.

        Cyanogen is talking out of their ass. If you don’t want to pay up for those services, build a better system. But of course they can’t and they won’t. If the likes of Amazon or Samsung can’t come up with services that are even in line with Google, I don’t see little Cyanogen reaching or surpassing Google.

        1. Because Amazon is big enough to provide all the competing services whereas most OEM are lucky to break even.
          What Cyanogen will do is allow OEMs pick the most suitable services for their handset. Might be Nokia Here + Chrome + Google Play + Spotify + Facebook + Outlook. Let competition sort out the best services not a restrictive licensing agreement.

          1. The biggest problem is that they will split the already fragmented market. Do you expect all the developers to sign up to multiple app stores and push their apps to every app store. Also with a super open app store you will bound to get fakes and more malware which damages the android eco-system.

          2. The alternative is to let one company control it all and erst while commoditization will push the OEMs to the brink of bankruptcy and with no money for R&D.

          3. well unless you live in a parallel universe that is not the case with the most of the big and decent OEMS. Each of the big ones are doing really well. If you want a free operating system go with firefox OS. Android fragmentation damages the os so much. I believe it needs more control then what is currently available. So many users are burnt already by buy cheap android phones especially from china ones that barely work. We dont live in a ideal world people will abuse free things and if there was a truly free popular OS it would get abuse allot more. That is why there is control.

    2. Who’s to say you can’t have Google without Gapps? Whose to say they can’t make a default mail program that allows you to connect up Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, and Talk – IMAP, CalDav, CardDav, and XMPP? As for the rest? Well, they can’t block a website from going to http://www.google.com for search and Nokia/Here maps are pretty much better than Google Maps, any way.

  21. Here comes “Gendows”, yawn….

    1. ,pos windoze phones

  22. If Kondik thinks Microsoft investing is a better idea vs Google then he’s out of his mind. Either way it goes CyanogenMod will be picked apart by whoever ends up buying the company. The difference lies in this: would you rather have your company dismantled and your ideas survive in some form the way you wanted them, or would you rather your whole product just be rebranded as something else??

    1. Well said bro. I think companies like Cyanogen inc. need to make their own OS that’s not based on android and stop crying. They know they can’t do it. That’s why they made this shady deal with Microsoft. Look at other big companies like Asus and Samsung, and many others that are based on android. They can build and code their own OS and provide the hardware to go with it. And many don’t know that Cyanogen Inc. is the evil behind Google deciding to make android more proprietary than ever. It all started right after Cyanogen Inc. was created.

      1. And you know what?? Your exactly right. I didn’t even make that correlation until you just pointed it out, but your right. When Cyanogen first started making those Roms alotta of people that rooted their devices preferred Cyanogen over other ROM makers because other ROM makers lacked the polish and ease of use that cyanogen HAD. After awhile though, they started to become sloppy with the releases which is part of the reason I stopped using their Roms a long time ago.

      2. Easy to make a phone OS but not easy to sell it. Google couldn’t do it it…they had to buy Android. Which phone do Asus and Samsung sell with OSes that they make their own that they sell in actual significant numbers?

        1. In the beginning android was fragmented with little support from Google. Over the years though they’ve been able to hire a lot more of their own developers. That’s why we see such an improvement in android with lollipop. The tables have turned and Google is more involved in the development on the open source side more than ever. That doesn’t mean it should be stolen from them. Silicon Valley #2 by Microsoft.

  23. This could be so huge. If they do create a compering ecosystem, Google will respond accordingly. Android could start competing with Android. The rate of improvement could be phenomenal. The options are mind blowing and include Apple bringing true iOS integration to Windows.

    Serious move.

    1. I think you’re underestimating the current situation already. They can make another ecosystem just simply by providing an app store app like amazon already do. This is because Android is open.

      1. Of course they can. But I’m not talking just about an app store. I’m talking about services that link Android to Windows w/o Chrome. And not just swapping IE for Chrome (or whatever the new IE will be), but actually having Windows 10 or whatever cast the way Chrome does. Having Media Player tie your music collection to your Android with OneDrive.

        MS is rolling out its Office apps right now. I’m talking about replacing GMail with Outlook.com or Office365 Exchange, Google Drive with OneDrive and Google Apps with Office.

        Amazon isn’t pulling that off. They are hardly integrating their cloud services into Android and don’t offer an office suite so far as I know.

        I think you’re underestimating what MS could do with this. You replace those services and you don’t need to sell people a Windows phone.

      2. Yes they can…but…Android is a trademark so only OEMs who sign up to the OHA can market their phone as Android….and people are only looking at the big 4 at the moment…Android, iOS, BB and WP. If a OEM starts selling another Android based phone but cannot call it Android then it will have limited success. Not sure….look at Amazon’s phone sales.

  24. Evil Microsoft at its best did the same with sco Unix / Linux now they want fork fragment android. No one cares for pos windozes

    1. Google already has forked Android and turned it into a proprietary OS. Why is Cyanogen wanting to take it back and open it back up “evil”?

      1. When did they fork it? Because as far as I can tell, Android is Android. Its the Google Apps that Google has closed source.

        1. Google are slowly taking out the open bits and replacing them with the proprietary Google elements. Sure…the open bits are still available for others to put back in but what OEM will do that? What Google is doing is slowly evolving Android under the noses of the OEMs who have no money and no choice but to follow. Eventually we will end up with a smaller open source Android with a larger proprietary Google source…a sort of frankenstien OS..and why…so that Google ensure they are cemented in the Android drivers seat. That is not so bad unless you want to be able to have a functional Android that is not beholden to one corporation that can dictate what is bundled in and bundled out of the core OS.

          1. Like what? Name some of these bits outside GAPPS.

  25. As big of a “nerd” as I am, I don’t really care about rooting, ROMs, etc. Every time I’ve done so, I always unroot (for different reasons I don’t feel like going into; this is a comment form, not an English Lit class). I just prefer out-of-the-box, pure Android; it’s good enough for me and works perfectly fine for my needs. I understand why such is important to others and that’s cool. I just don’t care.

  26. Give it a year or two and I bet everyone will be wondering what happened to this plan.

    If Amazon cant achieve this on their own with the Kindle and Fire phones and their name is really well know, I don’t hold out much hope of adding Microsoft’s name to the situation where they also don’t have much sway in the mobile arena as well.

    Microsoft should just bite the bullet and produce, Google Android phones with free Microsoft products bundled in like Office and Outlook. They get a profit from Google Android phones sold anyway from the patents they hold. Money in the bank is money in the bank. The upside is that people buying Microsoft Android phones may purchase office desktop services to go with them.

    That said, who know what will happen next, it wasn’t that long ago that most mobiles were Blackberry and Nokia, Windows mobiles came along and shook it up a bit, now its a two horse race with iOS and Android, Nokia Microsoft and Blackberry are no even making a dent in either of their sales figures.

    The question is who is going to make a big impact next ? I don’t think the answer is going to be CyanogenMod regardless of how much money they throw at it.

    1. Google knows it is a data company. Microsoft can’t decide what they do. Thereforw, Google’s direction is clear to themselves, where Microsoft has not a real clue. Microsoft, and others like Amazon, is throwing stuff at the Wall to see what sticks. Google is building that wall.

      1. Windows 10 and HoloLense to me is an indication that Microsoft way be putting themselves back on track, if they pull these off, they may just put themselves back at the forefront of everyday technology again.

  27. Hopefully they’re successful. It’s criminal how Google has hijacked open source Android and turned it into a spyware network.

    1. Idk about criminal, just kinda sh**ty

    2. Google was up front from day one saying their motive and value in Android was to collect data. Google is a data company. They are also up front in telling you what they collect and where. There is no spying going on.

    3. You really dont know wtf youre talking about dont you

  28. microsoft doesnt care about micromax sellout cyanowhatever they will just chew them and spit them out

  29. Oh boo hoo, CyanogenMod wouldn’t be anything if it wasn’t for Android. I have not tried CyanogenMod lately because for me there are better options out there now. Microsoft does need a ton of help with Windows Phone, it is slowly getting better especially with the developer previews but they still need a ton of help to even be relevant in the industry. My Windows Phone I use is a complete lag fest and the store is laughable at the content that is in it but it is getting better.

    1. Being someone that has installed cyanogen from 7. I disliked cyanogen compared to other roms but CM12 is excellent. Besides some bugs in lollipop cm12 runs excellent

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