Apple Details 2010 Patent Negotiations Held With Samsung – Met 4 Times Before Going “Thermonuclear War”


Here’s an interesting story from the guys at TheVerge. We’ve all heard or read about the long, drawn out fight-to-the-death patent lawsuits from Apple and Samsung. It got so bad that we just stopped reporting on them (unless it was a major development/ruling). Well, back when the Apple vs. Samsung lawsuits first hit our desks, we heard from Apple that they actually reached out to Samsung before ever going to court, letting them know of their alleged patent infringement. Samsung, of course, denied these claims and left it at that.

Well, in a recent filing, Apple actually detailed these supposed “negotiations that never happened” that occurred between July and September of 2010. According to Apple, there were 4 meetings in which both Apple flew out to Korea, and Samsung was brought to Cupertino where the 2 sides sat down with one another. Allegedly, these meetings (presumably, with tension so thick, you could cut it with a knife) are where Apple presented Samsung with photos, charts and diagrams on exactly which patents Apple felt Samsung was infringing upon. Here’s a little excerpt from that federal court filing:

On or about August 4, 2010, Apple representatives met with Samsung in Korea and showed a presentation titled ‘Samsung’s Use of Apple Patents in Smartphones.’ This presentation emphasized Samsung’s copying of the iPhone and identified two of the patents-in-suit (the ‘002 and ‘381 patents), giving Samsung actual notice of at least these patents, and many more.

On or about August 26, 2010, Apple sent Samsung an electronic archive file containing claim charts further illustrating Samsung’s infringement of Apple patents. A presentation document that accompanied these claim charts identified the ‘002 and ‘381 patents as two patents that Samsung products infringed, and it substantiated these allegations with text from the patents and photographs of Samsung devices illustrating infringing functionality. Apple later presented these slides to Samsung at a meeting in Cupertino, California on or about September 9, 2010.

For a hellbent Jobs, aimed at destroying Android, he seemed rather civil in his talks with Samsung. What do you guys think? Could Apple really have been the good guy, trying to settle things peacefully while Samsung gave them the middle finger? Say it ain’t so. Or maybe Jobs’ demands were so out there and unrealistic, Samsung was forced to flip the table and storm out of the meeting. Thoughts?

Chris Chavez
I've been obsessed with consumer technology for about as long as I can remember, be it video games, photography, or mobile devices. If you can plug it in, I have to own it. Preparing for the day when Android finally becomes self-aware and I get to welcome our new robot overlords.

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  1. Or maybe Samsung felt they still werent infringing and said no much like Barnes and Noble told Microsoft no and Apple told Motorola no. Only an Android blog would suggest that Apple could have been the nice guy. Sometimes I’d swear these blogs are run by undercover iFans.

    1. i fully agree with you last i checked this was an android blog yet time and time again isheep seem to pop up left and right trying to sway in favor of apple now allow me to digress for a second i work at a cellphone store i work with iphones/androids/windows/bb all day from simple programing to flashing and everything under the sun including physical repairs so i see everyone copies everyone so all the shit has to stop apple is not inovation they are just really good at stealing ideas and then paying lawyers to argue it was theirs first lol

      1. same, I sell them all and they all copy little things here and there. But when a magical notification pull down window appears in ios5 we start asking questions. But when a phone that happens to be a small personal computer and inherently has to have some similarities to others apple goes thermonuclear.
        I am typing this on a mac while my android is streaming google music. so i am far from biased.

        1. funny thing is im exactly the same im typing this on a mac i have an android phone htc amaze i have and android tablet i have an itouch and i keep and iphone 4 to experiment different hacks for my customers so i too am far from biased they all have something going for them and at the end of it all their just trying to run a game of big bank take little bank which again if i digress apple is going to spend 10 billion to buy back stock what does that show they want to give the public less say and know how in their matters what are they hiding i say…..

          1. They’re hiding a RoboJobs.

    2. I own every iPhone, all the iPads and I’m typing this while wearing a black turtle neck. O_o

      1. And there you have it.

        On a serious note I say that as I’m really starting to realize the extent of the underhanded stuff going on in tech media. And for some reason the Android blogs seem to play right into the trap. Being honest is one thing but sometimes you have to scratch your head at the things said.

      2. You forgot to mention the goatee and ponytail.

    3. Not fair….. I have seen it swing both ways

  2. Just because they met doesn’t mean Apple was reasonable in their demands.

    1. Exactly!

    2. That’s what I was thinking. Patent trolling that started outside of the courtroom could still be considered patent trolling.

  3. I can envision it now:

    Apple: “Hi Samsung, thanks for coming. Have a seat.”
    Samsung: “What’s this about buddy? Do you need more processors for your silly iPhone?”
    Apple: “Funny you should bring that up…We have these two EXTREMELY weak patents that we think you kinda sorta infringe on a tiny little bit. We want $15 per device per infringement.”
    Samsung: “That’s $30 per phone for two patents that should have been invalid from the get go. The typical licencing rate for this sort of thing is usually around $5 to cover all infringements.”
    Apple: “We don’t care. We’ll sue you. We have $100 billion to waste in court. How much disposable money do you have?”
    Samsung: “Not that much…we prefer to reinvest our profits into real innovation.”
    Apple: “We’ll see you in court then…but we won’t tell you when.”

  4. 99% of Apples patents are bullshit.  Just like all software patents.  They act like they invented every technology to do with smart phones.  Smart phones are PIMs with a phone built in.  They invented jack and shit and jack left town.

    1. here’s my ode to that sentiment exactly (not the Hitler video!) This time it’s Steve Jobs vowed to destroy Android!

  5. AKA
    Apple tred to extort money out of Samsung 4 times in 2010 and Samsung wasnt having it.
    So Apple decided to go thermonuclear and sue sue sue and most of the cases were thrown out…. While the others Samsung had to make minor changes to and still didn’t have to give Apple a dime……

    Good call Samsung.

    1. you do now motorola sued apple first. They WERE kinda assholes for that. And they WERE going to sue other android manufacterers

      1. Pertaining to Android, I believe Apple mimed stone throwing at Palm over the Pre first, got scared after realizing how many of thier patents THEY (and every other smartphone) infringes upon, then turned and skipped that stone towards HTC instead.

        Even before that however was a similar ordeal to the current Apple/Samsung back and forths with Nokia sueing Apple and vice versa so I guess we can all say thanks to Nokia for starting the war…………

  6. It wouldn’t surprise me if Samsung had given them the middle finger.  They’ve done it before to others.  While I am an Android ‘Phan’boy, I’m a bigger fan of fair play.  I think both sides should learn to play nice.

    1. Word. I’m not gonna lie… in my opinion, Samsung was blatantly copying the iPhone in some of their early designs. Only Motorola and HTC were really doing their own thing. 

      1. Chris Chavez… Make sure when you go to the store to pick up the SGS2 instead the IPHONE 4S, and go to the salesperson tell him you are buying the IPHONE. As you think Sammy copying Apple.

      2. How did they copy the iPhone, for one the galaxy s2 is much larger in comparison, thinner, lighter has capacitive buttons accompanied by a ractengular home button in the middle, hell even a blind man could tell the difference between the feel of an iPhone to an s2, remember that during the hearing against the galaxy tab, apple also insisted that any tablet in the form of a rectangle was unjustly infringing their patent like they were the first to invent a rectengular tablet computer

        1. @google-ac5cacb14afe9fb587a25f27755d484f:disqus @Marsg:disqus Not necessarily the GS2 and the iPhone 4. Was referring to the original Galaxy S. Part 1. =p

          1. Chris is right, you’d have to be blind not to see the similarities between the Galaxy S Vibrant and the iPhone 3G. However, you’d also have to be mildly retarded to confuse the two and somehow think you’re buying an iPhone when you pick up a Galaxy S. The similarities are less so with the Fascinate & Epic though, and even less with the Captivate.

  7. Doesn’t really matter how amicable they were when the “patents” in question consist of Samsung making a square device and their menus “bouncing” at the end. If this is the critical intellectual property that Apple is worried about being stolen then, then maybe they should have been laughed at.

  8. Ill go with demands were out there and unrealistic! Look how they are fighting everyone else with the lawsuits. Similar fashion to the apple v sammy. Are they gonna come out and say they did the same to htc and motorola with civil meetings?

  9. Hilter also vowed thermonuclear war agaisnt Android! … didn’t work out for him either

  10. Godzilla raids again FTW.

  11. Without any details on what’s been discussed, and supporting the claims with the actual presentations and protocols, I say it’s all the same old bs we are so used to hear from Apple. It proves nothing.

  12. The demands were probably unrealistic I mean just as we all by now heard Jobs said he’s going to spend every penny in Apples bank account to destroy Android. However Samsung should have made an official statement right then, this would safe their face now.
    On the other hand many Asian companies are known to ignore intellectual property rights, again this is why it would have been a smart move by Samsung to make these meetings and Apple’s claims public so their reaction to it.

  13. My opinion on apple is based on their actions, not what they say, Apple can suck a banana.

  14. Apple the good guy lol, when Motorola won the cloud case in germany and wanted 2.50 per device infringing, apple was like no way thats absurd but now their asking Samsung for 15 dollars per device and that sounds reasonable to them? Lol apple wants to look like the good guy but their really bad even at pretending .

  15. fuck them apple nazis . steve was just mad that android is getting in his way of being the best phone on the market . and how the hell do you patent a shape apple? really a rectangle shaped tablet is infrindging on there patent so why not go after every tablet maker

  16. This smells of bullshit. I see no concrete evidence at all. Pictures and flight stubs or it didn’t happen.

  17. I would never believe Apple, they’re always in it for themselves and no one else. They love to stop innovation and competition in its tracks.

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