By Either Nokia and Microsoft really are trying to conspire the demise of Android (as B&N claim) or the Finnish Phenom (Nokia CEO Stephen Elop) is getting played like a fiddle by HTC CEO Peter Chou. The DowJones Newswires say Nokia’s head honcho is happy they didn’t choose Android because Android manufacturers are worried about their outlook.
“I have discussed it with for example HTC [Corp.’s] Chief Executive Peter Chou. He and many other handset makers are worried that the Android device manufacturers’ profit margins are getting reduced,” Elop said at Nokia’s annual general meeting on Tuesday, according to the newspaper.
I guess Mr. Chou didn’t show him this graph from BoomBustBlog:
Author Reggie Middleton follows that graph with the following statement, probably something Chou didn’t tell Elop either:
You see, Android is a money printing machine, and those who don’t jump on the Android bandwagon will get steamrolled by those who do.
Skyrocketing revenue doesn’t mean skyrocketing profit, but Nokia must have been looking at the wrong memo concerning margins:
And if Nokia missed the boat on these simple facts, they were probably in la-la land (AKA Steve Ballmer’s office) when HTC reported Q1 earnings that included 9.7 million units shipped, 174% year-to-year revenue growth, 162% year-to-year gross profit growth, and 11 to 11.5 million shipments expected in Q2.
Either Nokia is in denial, trying anything it can to drag down Android, or getting played like a fiddle by HTC’s Peter Chou.
Let’s face it: the LAST thing HTC wants is for Nokia to enter the inner Android circle currently occupied by Motorola, Samsung, LG, and HTC. While they might move like a slug in terms of tech innovation, Nokia is still an absolute gorilla, and adopting Android would certainly eat into HTC market share. And apparently the last thing Nokia wants is to wake up from its day dream after dominating the mobile market for years:
Nokia announced in February its new strategy to use Microsoft Corp.’s Windows Phone Software in a new line of handsets in a bid to regain market share
Let us know how that works out for you. The only thing HTC seems worried about his having a big enough rake for all that money.
“Let us know how that works out for you. The only thing HTC seems worried about his having a big enough rake for all that money.”
Priceless!
i remember that htc and samsung signed on to make window7 phones. how are those charts doing in comparison to android’s launch…
Obviously Microsoft has made everyone in the world who can speculate on WP7 sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement. Comscore/IDC/Canalys will not differentiate between WP7 and WinMobile. LG, HTC, Samsung, Dell will not say how many WP7 phones they’ve sold and all the carriers in the world also will not say how many WP7 mobiles they’ve sold. WP7 sales are top secret, gee wonder why.
Nokia is just using the statement of HTC CEO as a excuse. If you think that Nokia really believes what Chou said that Mr Rob you are the biggest fool in this world.
Agree. Rob Jackson is simply bitter that the best OEM (Nokia), with the most recognizable brand name of all time, CHOSE Windows Phone and Microsoft. Nokia’s distinction, as well as Apple, adds class and status – these are not run of the mill, sea of sameness companies (i.e. HTC, LG. etc). If Nokia had chosen Android, the Nokia brand and class association would be completely diminished! Nokia knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they chose Windows Phone.
I understand not choosing Android because they don’t want to concede the competitive advantage but that doesn’t mean they had to choose and handcuff themselves to a competitive disadvantage. There were other alternatives.
Nokia’s distinction? Nokia doesn’t have distinction anymore. Go to a coffee shop and look around. You’ll see Blackberries, Motorolas, Samsungs and HTCs aside from the iPhone. I can’t remember the last time I saw someone actually using a Nokia phone, although I believe it was 2006. If Nokia actually wanted to survive, they would have chosen to make Android phones as well as, or in place of, WP7 phones. I’m not saying that WP7 is a bad OS or anything, but Android is the 500 pound gorilla running through the jungle, knocking everyone else out.
I really, really try not to be critical of people and their abilities, but I can’t keep quiet anymore.
PLEASE!!!!! start proofreading your articles, and maybe even have a second person do the proofreading if you are doing it already. The grammatical errors that I see in almost every article written on here is atrocious.
The only other reason I can think of that would cause such continuing errors would be that you are all plagiarizing somebody else’s poor grammar and assuming they don’t make such errors.
There have been a lot of cases where Rob’s articles have been full of grammatical errors and factual errors too.
Of course Kevin Krause…. he’s somewhat worse. It’s like reading the ill informed ramblings of a school kid.
I second this, please, someone start proof reading things before they’re published here.
Definitely agree on proofreading my own articles but it’s tough to balance quality and quantity – yesterday I published 22 articles because I wanted to bring readers all the news they might want but seeing some of the oversights I’ve made is pretty irritating. Usually I’m like “shutup with the grammar nazi” stuff but I’m taking it a bit more personally this time around.
In terms of FACTS… feel free to point out a case where I’ve been wrong, because as far as I’m concerned, we’ve been dead on accurate.
Rob, maybe I’ve been a bit harsh on you, it’s Kevin who murders things rather badly.
Just to take two things from the last day
Atrix / Orange: I’m sick of people in the US harping on about the significance of something being free on contract. Understand, any phone in the UK is available free on some contracts. Contract prices vary depending on what phone that you want.
Blackberrys: You seem to have no concept of the difference between the QNX Playbook OS and BB OS 7 (nee 6.1). This phrase was ridiculous: “I’m not sure why Blackberry 7 OS would disclude Android support”
(1) People still like to know when things are free and regardless of price, it was about a launch date, and (2) How can you argue that point when I SPECIFICALLY say “I’m not sure why”? And to be honest, if they’re able to support it in one place you might think they’d try to support it in another.
This will no doubt continue into an argument that neither of us will win :)
1) Every single phone in the UK is ‘Free’ by that logic. That isn’t news. You can pay £30/month and get say an Xperia Arc ‘Free’ and pay £35/month for exactly the same minutes/texts/data and get an Atrix ‘Free’. It’s meaningless and not worth getting excited about. It was even referenced in an article later in the day as being free.
2) BB OS 6.1/7 is a set of minor enhancements over BB OS 6. There are no revolutionary changes. The Playbook runs a completely different (more modern) OS – QNX. BB OS is becoming a legacy platform in many ways as eventually QNX will be replacing BB OS on handsets. They decided to concentrate their resources on developing their emulator for one platform instead of developing it for two entirely different platforms.
don’t worry dude. Apparently he’s a penguin, lol. But it makes you wonder who has THAT much time to go through all of your articles, then to look up the details, so he can try to one up you on a site where you are a paid writer, and have nothing to prove to anyone. i call people like that L-O-S-E-R-S. I’m not sure if all of your articles are spot-on, but in my experience they are informative, and that is mainly what I look for.
The writer doesn’t really have a duty to give you (one of the many readers) what you want. He has a duty to provide the site owners (who pay for his work) what they want. If they want quantity and coverage, then he’s obligated to give them that even if it costs grammar/details. If they want perfect grammar and fine details on each topic, then it’s their responsibility, not ours, to correct the writer. If they want both, they have no choice but to hire more writers. Either way, it’s not the readers who hold the writer responsible. If you honestly feel like you’re being wronged, the proper course of action would be to take it up with the site ownership, voicing your concerns for their site and not an individual writer or two.
shut up s*** :D
This is no worse that most print magazines out there. I’d rather have the story sooner and have them move on to work on the next one. If an error is so egregious that people can’t understand, they can(and do) update.
Spanner
Freaking grammEr police drive me crazy. Go read a book for gods sake. Keep up the good work site operators. Don’t let the hoity toities bring you down. This is my favorite site for Android news!
*for God’s sake
or
*for god’s sake
Actually… grammAR is the correct spelling. This one is an easy find if you have a spell check in your browser. Check it… grammer has a red line. Grammar doesn’t. (and grammAR does to… because of the capitalization.)
That was the point you stupid douche. Though, I will give you an A for effort. Now, go get you a new juice box … you look parched from all that thinking.
*and grammAR does too
If you kids want to correct someone, even jokingly, at least do it correctly.
@itchy,
I don’t see your “point”. Laughable didn’t misspell grammar.
“The grammatical errors that I see in almost every article written on here is atrocious.”
Grammar Cop, arrest thyself!
Are you a foreigner? I don’t see any errors in that sentence. The article can be “is” or “are” in that sentence. You must have rode the short bus and had to wear a helmet.
“grammatical errors” = subject. Since that’s plural the descriptive should also be plural. It should be “are”.
First, it’s not an article, it’s the verb of the sentence. Second, no, “is and “are” are not interchangeable in the sentence: “atrocious” refers to “grammatical errors”; you would not say “Grammatical errors IS atroicous”, you would say “grammatical erros are atrocious”. Go back to the classroom and quit posting BS about a few grammar mistakes.
Nice try. Someone that has to resort to demeaning special needs children is an a** hat. Good for you
what hypocritical racist you are…being a foreigner has nothing to do with writing good english grammar. there are tons of “non-foreigners” that i know of that can’t spell sh*t. yes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but please, these people DO NOT GET PAID BY YOU, or anyone else who reads these blogs/posts FOR FREE. leave them alone…if you don’t have anything good to say, just STFU.
Flame war?! I’ll go get my flamethrower.
Oooo good idea! I just picked up the new Deluxe model, what about you? My flamethrower has a cup holder ;)
Glad someone pointed that out. What a moron.
Grammar Police, always fail to understand that the Internet has international reach. Mistakes will be made by those who dont have English as their first language. Their thought process is different.
So if this offends you, tough luck! You can’t stop it. The more you complain, the more you will be rejected.
Do yourself a favor, get lost!
The grammatical errors *are* atrocious. Maybe you should proofread your own posts before looking like a douchebag.
I are disliking of how you put down Rob Jackson. I imagine lots of difficult to make many articles and get complaints not; especially from readers who want constantly news.
Keep up the good work, Rob J. This site is one of my first stops when reading information Android related.
There are no grammatical or spelling errors of any kind in the article. dont be so anal. anyone as uptight as you must have something (like a stick) up your ass. People like you that get so upset over stuff like grammar or if your phone gets an update, or your carrier gets a particular phone usually die of heart attacks or loneliness. Go enjoy life, it’s too short.
I agree and some of the stories themselves don’t make sense. Remember quality > quantity.
Ok, so Nokia are wanting to use windows mobile on their phones to regain market? Doesn’t make sense to be honest.
why doze every1 kare bout gratikal erors. itz a phone website, not a college application, get over your damn selves and go critize your kids english assignment!!!
I think it’s because we are afraid of what happened in Idiocracy actually happening. We are definitely on our way there, i guess it’s good if you want a hand job from Starbucks. But i think I’ll pass.
> why doze every1 kare bout gratikal erors.
I care very much. But only an idiot would begin or end a sentence with the word “but”. And only the king of idiots would begin or end a sentence with the word “and”. Their are just two many people who get to upset because of there sense of proper grammar. Your not going to please everyone regardless of the extent of you’re efforts.
Can you imagine the conversation between these two…
Elop: What are your profits for Android devices compared to WP7 devices?
Chou: Well our profits have skyrocketed with Android but we’re losing money on devaluation of our unsold WP7 devices inventory.
Elop: Awesome! I can’t wait to switch to WP7, sorry I missed that part about android.
Chou: How about that Ballmer guy he’s a bit of a sweaty lunatic don’t yeah think?
Elop: He’s not that bad, I actually have a date with him on Friday, I hear he puts out.
LMAO! +1
He definitely puts out.
Classic!
ROFL ahahah
Speaking business-wise, the growth in profits and revenues is impressive but the opex growth is something to watch.
On the one hand, operational expenditure growth can signal a growing company and “spending money to make money” but at the same time, it’s important to recognize that a lot of that opex is *not* easily shrinkable…it’s got a “tail” in the sense that it’s overhead every year from there on out (until there are drastic cuts) regardless of what the profits and revenues look like.
i.e., a responsible executive wouldn’t ignore that opex bump just b/c revenue was booming.
@ laughable and the other clown. TAKE YOUR ASS IN THE CLASSROOM WHERE PPL CARE!!! We dont give to spits about mistakes in the article.
I’m not sure things are so rosy for the Android camp to be honest.
Each manufacturer is trying to outdo the others, and in doing so they’ll invariably try to cut prices on their latest devices to try and gain market share. This price-cutting definitely leads to a loss in profits.
And let’s not forget that they will try to push their newest devices out the door as early as possible – in Motorola’s case, that strategy saw the XOOM released in a state that many people think was unfinished. Certainly that didn’t help in sales figures.
Think of the all the money being used by these manufacturers in their R&D exercises and massive advertising campaigns to gain an upper hand. The intense competition surely means profits margins (if there are any) are thin on the ground.
Eventually, as the market moves towards saturation point, the smaller manufacturers will probably find themselves being pushed out because they simply cannot compete with the big boys.
In the end, a possible scenario is that there will only be a couple of Android manufacturers left. The others, having invested so much into Android infrastructure but without the market share to keep them going, may just close shop. Having not jumped on the bandwagon earlier in order to mitigate the competitive disadvantage, Nokia probably thought facing this scenario was too big a risk to take.
TL;DR version: Nokia has not chosen to go with Android because if they had, being so late to the game, they would have very little control over their own fate. They would have been several years of programming knowledge behind the original group of Android manufacturers, and just one mis-step (in the form of, say, a single poor generation of device releases) could have seen them facing huge losses that they may never have recovered from. Going to Android would have meant being a small fish in a massive pond. Going to Windows, at least, guarantees Nokia will be a big fish with more say in their own destiny.
Would you rather cut profits by 10% and sell 5 million units or increase profit by 20% and sell 200k units? Besides, even if WP7 ever became at least almost as successul as Android, the manufacturers would have the same problem, if not worse since they can’t customize it as much as Android.
I agree. But think profit margins are very very thin.
The way I see it, success may boil down to tech – the manufacturers who can provide the devices with the best tech will beat out the rest. With their resources and reputation for build quality, Nokia’s got to be pretty confident about providing devices with tech that customers will want. This makes it even more sensible for them to go with a platform like WP7, where they don’t have to play catch-up with competitors by learning how to compete on software (read: UI overlays like Sense or TouchWiz).
> Each manufacturer is trying to outdo the others
That’s called competition. (Hint: it’s a good thing.)
> in doing so they’ll invariably […] cut prices [to] gain market share.
Yes, that’s how it works.
> This price-cutting definitely leads to a loss in profits.
That’s not the same thing as a loss. It’s still a profit. They’re all making profits. That’s what they are in business to do.
The reason capitalism and free markets are good is because competition forces the prices down to the lowest point where everyone can still make a living. It works for potato chips, automobile tires, neckties, coffee makers and lots of other things.
So why shouldn’t it work for Android phones?
> [small players can’t compete]
Yes, that’s how it works. Nothing wrong with that. Always has been. Always will be. Yes, small mom and pop shop can’t compete well against, say, General Electric.
What is your main point, exactly?
Oh, and I said loss_in_profits.
I’m probably just overreacting to the first part of your message. Plenty of people bitch about Android. (Not that there aren’t some legitimate things to bitch about.) I perceived that you might be complaining about the effective competition, which I think is a strength of Android.
Regardless, I agree with your conclusion about why Nokia would go with Microsoft. Of course, if Nokia were on the ball, they never would have let things get to the state where signing up for assisted suicide with Microsoft would be necessary.
You should have somehow worked in a quote from Nokia about how using Android would be like peeing in your pants to stay warm in the winter. No, really. That quote reveals their attitude about Android, perhaps after already having internally decided to go with Microsoft. That quote also potentially burned or at least scorched some bridges.
Yeah you were over-reacting. I’m a self-confessed Android fan (which explains why I’m here in the first place) and I wasn’t complaining about it at all. I’m just stating things as I see them, and I tried to be as impartial as possible.
Re the “peeing in your pants” comment: I hate to say it, but I can understand why the guy thought that way. To be perfectly honest, I think there is some truth to it too.
If you agreed with the logic in my first post, then we can probably assume a lot of the manufacturers can see the sense in such a prediction as well. I believe that is the reason why we will never see a big manufacturer investing 100% in Android at the expense of other platforms. For example, HTC also supports WP7; so does Samsung, who also has its own bada OS. The manufacturers who can afford it will always keep a back-up plan in case their Android plans get derailed.
We already know that some manufacturers were pissed when Google withheld the source code for Honeycomb; I think if someone had asked that Nokia guy, he would probably have said the pee’s already starting to turn cold…
All I can tell Nokia is before android, I choose only Nokia because of their quality. Now I only look at android phones!
Apple Iphone started great like their Mac but just like their Mac it lost to android. Microsoft just as bad as Apple. Nokia=quality but also = boring.
About the grammatical errors: It just looks unprofessional. If you are a writer (of articles) and you can’t get the basics right (proof reading, spell checking), it looks very unprofessional. If you’re publishing something that is read by many others, have some pride in it and do it well.
About profit margin:
I think the margins will go down because of more competition. That is good news for consumers. I think that Nokia didn’t want to compete in an already crowded field; if they would, it would drive the margins down even more.
Re: About profit margin of
Yes, of course margins go down as more competition enters a market. However, the keyword in my sentence is “market “. WP7 does not live in a bubble, even holier than thou Apple doesn’t. As prices go down for Android WP7 prices will have to compete with them, therefore pushing prices down. Furthermore, I read an article quoting an analyst who estimated that WP7 has shipped 1.5 million devices, but sold less than half of those. In order to have any pricing power you need to be in demand, which is why Apple does still have pricing power, even if they will compete on the lower end soon.
So, more Android phones, means smaller margins for Nokia whether they are inside or outside the Android ecosystem.
@Laughable,think you should’ve resisted. Lol Tried to read and follow your post But kept falling asleep. :-))
In related news…
http://www.neowin.net/news/analyst-pegs-wp7-sales-at-674000-units
Haha
lol..
I would still give it a few years before literally laughing at WP7. That number is less than what was reported earlier this year. I thought it was over the million mark.
Insiders say that Nokia are still working on Android concepts and if WP7 doesnt go well in 2012, Elop will get the chop, Ansi will be back and they will use Android too.
@Rob Jackson and other fans of Android: Why can’t you simply accept that at the end of the day, Nokia chose WP7 over Android because of the OS, not because of any other phone manufacturer? WP7 simply is more desirable, not to mention that the ecosystem that Microsoft provides is leaps and bounds more polished that Android/Google will ever be. It’s not like you were jilted – you never had Nokia to begin with. Stop fantasizing about ‘what if’ Nokia had chosen Android, or ‘That X7 would should be great if Android was on it’, etc. Move on!
Actually they had chosen Android, but MS talked them out of it with a fat cheque. Nokia decided if it all goes wrong they can always go with Android later, hence why they are still working on Android protos.
Really? They actually chose Android and they are working (you say ‘still working’) on Android protos? Source please.
Sure, soon as you prove Nokia picked WP7 because of the OS and that there were no other factors involved.
*I* do not have to prove anything; however, if you would like to know about Nokia’s decision, may I recommend visiting Conversations @ Nokia – it is the official Nokia blog site. (My previous point also mentions that the Microsoft ecosystem was another reason for their decision). It’s proven: The Android OS will sell, in great numbers, on any piece of metal; thus it stands to reason that it would also sell on a Nokia device. Nokia will still have to compete with some of the same OEM’s with regards to WP7, yes? Yes. Bottom line: Nokia desired and chose WP7. Again, Android OS fans, stop lamenting Nokia’s decision; it has been made and will not change. Move on.
Go away…
Have you looked at the Nokia conversations blog, have you looked at Nokia’s stock. No one in their right mind can accept that Nokia chose WP7 because it doesn’t make any sense, and every time Nokia tries to justify its decision it sounds stupider and stupider, hence the article. Also it’s pretty damn obvious Elop is acting in Microsoft’s best interest and I’m pretty sure every phandroid (including myself) would like to see this brought to light.
Yes, I visit the Nokia Conversations blog regularly, and it is a whinefest! Just because Symbian fans (and Android OS fans alike) don’t like nor accept the fact that Nokia desired Windows Phone and Microsoft, doesn’t and will not change the decision to NOT put the Android OS on their devices, as well as to discontinue their efforts with Symbian over the next couple of years. The Nokia brand deserves the polish that WP and Microsoft will bring. Symbian/Android OS fans, why do you continue to lament Nokia’s decision? Isn’t your time valuable to you? You must move on…
That must be why WP7 is leaving Android and Apple in the dust-oh wait a minute…..
Nokia chose WP7 because of the OS? Why?
WP7 FTW!!!
Yeah right. I won’t be caught dead with one of those.
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/05/02/apple-has-50-profit-share-smartphone-makers-cant-hear-haters-behind-huge-wall-cash/
Nokia still has higher profits than any Android maker besides Samsung and three Android makers are losing money.
Apple + Nokia + RIM still make 70% of the profit in the cell phone industry. It’s even worse for Android makers if you include the losses by Motorola, LG. and Sony-Ericson.
Its not to late nokia… you can still come to android. Lol
Profit margin is the amount that a company makes from selling a product. What Nokia said “..Android device manufacturers’ profit margins are getting reduced..” is true as you proved from the facts that you posted “.. 174% year-to-year revenue growth, 162% year-to-year gross profit growth..”.
According to those facts the profit did NOT grow as much as the sales revenue which means that profit margins were declined..!
I am sorry but your article is therefore pointless and unprofessional..