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We can’t even be mad at or surprised by Microsoft at this point. Huawei joins their fast-growing list of OEMs who manufacturer Android phones that are directly infringing on their patents by doing so.
Microsoft has been putting licensing deals in place with not only many popular OEMs, but also some we’ve never heard of. They must pay the Redmond company for every Android smartphone sold.
Imagine having to pay a separate entity anywhere between $7-$15 on millions of phones shipped when all of it was practically free from the vendor themselves Yep, leaves a very sour taste in my mouth too.
And the kicker is that Microsoft makes more money on these sales than they do from sales of phones with their own operating system. Thankfully these recent events haven’t deterred OEMs from using Android in their flagship lineups as you simply can’t deny the fastest growing operating system of all time. [Engadget]
This is obviously a code issue in the OS, so if Googorola is serious about protecting its partners they should fix the code that violates this patent. This would be a win/win situation. Not only would it force an update to all phones, but also increase their partners profits. It seems they are more focused on finding a patent to fight it than rewrite it to avoid it. Have they ever announced what the infringed patent is?
It is impossible for you, me or any big company to write any non trivial amount of code that does not infringe patents held by Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Apple, Unisys, Lucent, and God knows who else. So give up on the idea of rewriting code to not infringe. The problem is that the patent system is broken because it allows patenting of trivial and obvious ideas.
The only way to defend against this patent aggression is to use the same nuclear weapon: patents. It’s a patent nuclear war.
We know what some of Microsoft’s horrid patents are from the Microsoft vs. Barnes & Noble lawsuit. (See Groklaw.) Those patents illustrate what is wrong with the system. Otherwise, Microsoft is very vague about the exact number of and nature of other patents. This can only mean two things: 1. those patents are on trivial and obvious things that won’t withstand scrutiny, and 2. Microsoft fears that if the public knew them that someone would begin the process of getting those patents re-examined and ultimately rejected. Thus the extortionist (Microsoft) would lose its ability to extract patent royalties. Microsoft wants to make sure it is very expensive (ala Barnes & Noble) to have a legal fight rather than just paying the extortion money.
Sadly it seems that the commenters in this thread are either ignorant or MS moles, you just can’t reason with them
Don’t go and add logic to this! And how dare you make the all high and mighty Google take responsibility!
Gasp!
The fanboys will string you up!
Could you please identify what exactly Google has done wrong that they should take responsibility for?
Is it that Google has infringed a vague list of unidentified patents that Microsoft claims are infringed?
Danny part of the advantage of making Android free is so they could shield themselves from these types of lawsuits.
So both Microsoft and Google are protecting their profits.
I have to actually salute Microsoft because at least they have the balls to protect their patents while Google hangs it on the OEM’s.
How ethical is that?
BTW I am sure you are on your way to accuse me of being a shill or that I work for Microsoft.
There are 3 Android phones on my account and I recently changed from using Outlook to gmail entirely.
The difference between you and I is that I dont take this stuff personally.
Both Google and Microsoft are great companies as is Apple.
SHOCKING I know to be able to think for ones self.
Do you really think Huawei (or any other OEM) would just sign the papers if their position is legally defensible? I don’t know what kind of patents Microsoft have but they must be very solid (as solid as patents can be, of course).
Exchange.
If it were just about Exchange, then Microsoft wouldn’t be going after everyone using Linux (not just Android). For example, why go after Tom Tom and Garmin for their navigators? Those don’t interact with Exchange.
Answer: it’s because they use Linux (gasp!) — heaven forbid!
Yes, an OEM might just bend over and pay patent royalties, even if their position is legally defensible.
What you miss is that the legal battle can easily cost far more than the royalties Microsoft is charging. If the extortionist charges a low enough fee for “fire protection” to prevent your business from burning down, then you would probably just pay it as a cost of doing business.
If an OEM chooses to fight, then there is a chance they might lose and Microsoft might retaliate by charging a much higher extortion fee.
Those patents Microsoft has are junk. For example putting up an animation on the display as a placeholder while a process in the background completes a download. (eg, the equivalent of the spinning hour glass.) If you actually look at these patent claims instead of guessing you could see how ridiculous they are.
We know what some of the patents and claims are from the Microsoft suit against Barnes and Noble. Those are pathetic. The rest are, of course, secret. Microsoft doesn’t want us to know just how bad they are, or to preemptively be able to start the process of getting them re-examined and ultimately overturned.
The ultimate problem here is that the US (and other countries’) patent system is hopelessly broken.
Thankfully the real world doesn’t play out like your paranoid filled delusions
Sounds like you are the one who is deluded.
To you everything is sunshine lolly-pops and rainbows?.
Please provide some substance.
Point by point.
Are you saying I am wrong about it being considerably more expensive to be a defendant in a patent infringement lawsuit than to simply pay the royalties?
Are you saying I am wrong about if an OEM chooses to be sued and fight rather than pay royalties that there is a chance they could lose in court?
Or maybe I am wrong about the patents themselves being junk. Of course, the only patents that we actually know about are the ones Microsoft disclosed in Microsoft vs. Barnes & Noble. And those are obviously junk patents.
Or are you saying I am wrong that we DO NOT actually know what patents are at issue in the MS vs B&N lawsuit? (In fact: we do, they are disclosed in public court documents.)
Or are you saying I am wrong about the patent system being broken?
Please identify which thing(s) you are saying I’m wrong about instead of engaging in personal attacks “you’re paranoid”, “delusions”, etc. Provide some substance please.
Thank you.
I can understand that opting to pay the royalties would be a more attractive option than the expense of defending a lawsuit for one of the smaller Android OEM’s, but why would a company like Samsung agree to pay royalties? They have deep pockets just like Microsoft, and are more than able to financially defend themselves against such acussations. This to me seems more like an admission of guilt rather than trying to avoid legal fees. To me the real irresponsible party here is Google. They pretty much hung their partners out to dry with little to no patent protection. Eric Schmidt admitted that the driving force behind the Motorola purchase was for their patent portfolio, so they could Indemnify their partners. Had they made this purchase BEFORE releasing Android, maybe none of this would have ever happened…..just sayin
Samsung has enough going on dealing with Apple’s BS to start a new round with MS
For the record, HE brought up Apple, NOT me…..
malese want to switch to iPhone.
Hopefully ICS will put and end to these.
why would it do that? That’s makes as much sense as saying that a blueish snow leopard who likes to eat asparagus is going to end it.
M$ claims these infringements on a portion of codes used in Android OS. As many analysts say that ICS was made with patent-protection in mind, I said it will hopefully free up the manufacturers from this kind of patent-war. Doesn’t sound like a kitty eating vegetables anymore, does it?
I share your hope.
Also, hopefully, everything will be all unicorns and rainbows and everyone will be happy.
so wait…what pattents are they infringing on?
The only way you find out what patents are infringed is to not pay the extortionist the shakedown money. Then they’ll sue you over a small number of patents and you’ll know some. (As in the Microsoft vs. Barnes & Noble lawsuit.) Even if you win, the battle will be expensive. Then you can expect another patent infringement suit over a few more patents. There is a chance you’ll lose, and then Microsoft will retaliate by charging a higher extortion price in order to keep the other “licensees” in line.
The patents in Microsoft vs. Barnes & Noble are now known because they are revealed in the court documents, which are public unsealed court documents. (See Groklaw). Those patents are things so trivial and obvious that both Microsoft and the US Patent office should be ashamed of. But Microsoft is brazenly unafraid to engage in this patent shakedown. Why? Because Microsoft clearly is unable to compete in the mobile devices category without a monopoly. Microsoft has only and ever known how to run a monopoly and doesn’t know how to actually compete on a level playing field.
WOW 100 pounds of paranoid delusions. Of course the companies know before going to court what patents Microsoft is accusing them of breaking.
Would you please kindly point out how I am wrong. Microsoft says
Product X infringes a bunch of our patents. BTW, we have licensed this
mysterious bunch of patents to a number of companies who now pay us
royalties.
How do you propose to know what those patents are prior to actually being sued?
Microsoft
isn’t giving out a list of patent numbers infringed — otherwise,
anyone would go look up the patents by number and see how ridiculous
they are and work on getting them re-examined.
I would be delighted for you to point out how I am wrong so I can learn something.
” The only way you find out what patents are infringed is to not pay the extortionist the shakedown money.”
Maybe you should back up your ridiculous statement.
No company is going to pay Microsoft simply because Microsoft says patents are infringed.
Of course companies are going to know the nature of the infringement BEFORE AGREEING TO PAY. Stop with your extortion because it isn’t extortion.
You mean stop his acting stupid because his logic is downright stupid.
Being extorted over a bunch of bogus patents is extortion. I don’t know a better word for it. Shakedown perhaps?
“Being extorted over a bunch of bogus patents is extortion. I don’t know a better word for it. Shakedown perhaps?”
How do you debate someone when they throw out this stuff? “bogus patents”. I mean really?
Again Microsoft is acting within a system. It can be argued that the system is flawed but again dont hate the player.
Even if Windows phone was number 1 I would imagine they would still want to protect their patents.
Why when a company wishes to protect what they have created are they somehow bad?
If you have ever created something you would hopefully protect it until your last breath.
Lets not forget that Microsoft creates prosperity for 10 of thousands not to mention shareholders.
Oh gee, speak of the devil, here is a link about the Extortion claims.
Barnes & Noble wants DOJ probe into Microsoft patent tactics
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57320800-75/barnes-noble-wants-doj-probe-into-microsoft-patent-tactics/?tag=mncol;topStories
Yes, the system is broken and Microsoft is just exploiting the broken system. That doesn’t mean it is honorable. That doesn’t mean it is not extortion.
To back up one of my assertions, I’ll offer this link.
Microsoft Continues to Struggle for Smart Phone Market Share
Windows phone may not be as huge as Android but certainly isnt dismal.
This has ZERO to do with them protecting their patents.
You and I may not like it but its the system so dont hate the player.
Also why are you taking this so personally?
It has zero to do with patents, but it backs up a minor point I made.
I agree it’s the system, but that means the system is broken, as I’ve stated in this thread.
Why taking it personally? Because I’ve gotten several one line replies that are nothing but name calling personal attacks “delusional”, “stupid logic” etc without a shred of actual rebuttal to what I said.
As you say it’s the system. But I can and do hate the player. Not just Microsoft, but all of them that are abusing the broken patent system.
I would similarly ask why some people are so passionately anti Android?
Anyway, have a nice day.
Win7 Mobile is crap. It’s Microsoft Bob for a phone. Best of luck with your dillusion.
You mean Microsoft with their crappy Win7 mobile OS and propaganda articles in PC Magazine and Cnet is not the greatest thing in the world and not selling like hotcakes like I have been told over and over again from various sources that are part of the M$ 9 figure marketing campaign?
I’m shocked…shocked I tell ya!
Things don’t work the way you think they do.
Would you please kindly point out how I am wrong. Microsoft says Product X infringes a bunch of our patents. BTW, we have licensed this mysterious bunch of patents to a number of companies who now pay us royalties.
How do you propose to know what those patents are prior to actually being sued?
Microsoft isn’t giving out a list of patent numbers infringed — otherwise, anyone would go look up the patents by number and see how ridiculous they are and work on getting them re-examined.
I would be delighted for you to point out how I am wrong so I can learn something.
YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING CLAIMS!! ITS NOT OUR JOB TO PROVE YOU WRONG!
BACK YOUR SHIT UP!
Talking about moving the goal posts.
Haha… It’s hard to argue with a bum…
No, it is our job to prove him wrong. If you tell someone they are wrong, YOU need to back it up.
All it would take to disprove what I say is one single example, just one, of Microsoft disclosing any specific patents infringed — apart from disclosures that are part of a lawsuit.
meh.. Chinese company. MS can run them into the ground.
SD cards using FAT32 is probably the patent that gets them. That is why Tomtom had to pay royalties.
One last thing.
The only way to fix the SD FAT32 issue is for the OS to not be able to read it and force the card to be formatted to something like ext4. Problem is that you end up losing the ability for Windows to read your data since Windows doesn’t support ext4, so the end user loses a functionality unless he switches to Linux.
Suddenly the Nexus phone not having an SD slot makes much more sense.
Tru dat! Never thought of it that way, but it does make sense. Don’t really like the thought, but if it’s for the better….
“Huawei joins their fast-growing list of OEMs who manufacturer Android phones that are directly infringing on their patents by doing so.”
Ahem – “allegedly “. Microsoft hasn’t won a lawsuit that says they re actualy infringing. This is why so many manufacturers are giving in and making this situation works. People seem to think that if Microsoft accuse you of something, well then it must be true.
Do you SERIOUSLY think it really that black and white?
These companies wouldnt be paying if Microsoft didnt have a legit reason.
Look it sucks ya but Microsoft is taking advantage of the system to protect their patents!
SHOCKING I know.
The FIRST THING these companies did was have their legal counsel REVIEW THIS. Guess what? These attorneys obviously must have agreed!
Some of you have been watching the Matrix a tad too much.
I would pay double that amount in my next phone as virtual TAX just to be sure M$ couldn’t get any!