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[Update: Link to .apk]Android Market Updated – Serious Changes

The Android Developers Blog just posted an announcement that the Market has undergone a few, fairly remarkable, changes that will both please and probably tick off most of us.

With a focus on improving discoverability and merchandising, we’ve introduced a new carousel on the home and category screens. Users can quickly flip through the carousel to view promoted applications and immediately go to the download page for the application they want. Developers have been very active in creating great Widgets and Live Wallpapers. To make it easier for users to find their favorites, we’re introducing two new categories for Widgets and Live Wallpapers. Applications that include Widgets and Wallpapers will be automatically added to those new categories. We’ll also be adding more categories for popular applications and games in the weeks ahead. In addition, the app details page now includes Related content, which makes it easier for users to quickly find apps of similar interest.

market-homejpg

A new .apk file size limit has just been implemented, the new cap is 50MB this is to “better support richer games.” Also on tap is support for “device targeting” to best fit end users and their respective displays and densities. Which is a must have feature now that Android has a large window for variable screen sizes.

market-details

They also decided to reduce the refund window to a measly 15 minutes. Their justification for this was “most users who request a refund do so within minutes of purchase”. Yikes! No more buying now and waiting until later to try out your purchase.

All Phandroids running Android 1.6 or higher should see the update for the client within the next two weeks.

Update:
For those of you who want the new Market now, Android Police is hosting the .apk via multiupload. We suggest reading the post before diving in as there is some warnings about custom ROMs and the lack of testing, specifically those of you running CM.

This is one of those “we’re only sharing the information, not suggesting you go and install it without regard to the risks”.

[Android Developers Blog]




  • Micah

    Wow, they just ruined the one thing that kept me trying out paid apps.

  • Aaron

    Where do we go to start the petition to have the refund time changed back to 24 hours?

  • Marc

    WTF’s up with 15 minute refund window? Seriously dislike that idea. I generally do uninstall an unwanted app within the first few minutes, but sometimes I like to play with the app to see if it will grow on me. 24 hours was plenty of time to do that. Oh well, will need to practice more discretion when purchasing apps now…

  • Alvin B.

    FIFTEEN MINUTES?

    I have some language for Google, but I will not disgrace Fandroid with it.

    This will basically REQUIRE that any app purchase I make that I’m unsure of, I will immediately backup the APK and refund. Just in case. Way to punish people who wanted to be honest, Google!

  • Evo 4.5G

    15 minutes? REALLY? Give us at least a full hour!

  • Josh

    I hope it fixes all the problems I’ve been having since the last update.

    Also 15 minutes is retarded. I’ve had it take longer than 15 minutes to get an app to finish downloading and install right.

  • Blest

    Google effing everyone over now…first that lame phone coming out now these retarded changes.
    Way to go Google.

  • schwiz

    oh geez cry babies about 15 minute trial period. That is 15 more minutes than you get in the iOS store.

  • Alvin B.

    @schwiz That refund period is a big part of the reason many people aren’t ON the iOS store and google has just put a nail in THAT coffin.

    If you’ve ever followed the support forums, there have been just about 2 or 3 perennially bitchy/whiny devs that CONSTANTLY flame/threaten over refunds, claiming over 75% of their users pirate the app by buying it and refunding it.

    Apparently, Google cares more about a couple of bitchy developers than the entire world that’s buying the apps and appreciated the option to return junkware.

  • Andy

    Agreed – 15 minutes is crap. If my kid interrupts me, I’m out of luck – not good. And any app that may be worth purchasing usually has enough features that you could barely scratch the surface in 15 minutes.

  • jdog25

    I have downloaded apps on 2G that took 15 minutes, this must be changed to at least one hour.

  • v8dreaming

    Apple gives customers 90 days to claim a refund for any purchase they made in iTunes or in the App Store.

    This is where Google fails.

  • http://www.webarnes.ca Billy Barnes

    I agree. 15 minutes is long enough for some apps, but too short for a lot. It might be fine for a game, but anything more complicated probably takes longer than 15 minutes to set up. Think of home screen replacements or apps like Locale or Tasker. It will take people more than 15 minutes to realize that they don’t want something like that.

  • Andy

    Agree with schwiz, Apple give no refunds.

    @alvin
    And why do people always make outlandish statements to support their claim. I don’t think many people avoid Apple because of the no refunds policy, its that they don’t like their policies in general, or that they feel Android is the best phone they can get.

    And the piracy issue is bigger than the problem of “a couple bitchy devs”. Chill out man, allow a new thought to enter in. Rather than just letting the same two or three rattle around and turn rancid.

  • Josh

    Tightening the window will only hurt sales; dumb.

  • Kevin

    Google are you high! 15min for refund! Come on! I think should be 48hrs This is what made that part of the market better than apple. FAIL!!!!!

  • myfriend

    I dont mind the 15 minute window, its just a small amount anyway. If it were like $50 maybe id be angry, But cmon!App can be bought at anytime and place, so I am sure most people buy the app when they need it and just return it after. If this change will allow better apps on the android market, why the hell not.

  • http://twitter.com/airbornedude501 Dan

    The is evil! I believe it is the worst decision made regarding the market. That was the beauty of the Android Market, you had time to throughly test the application that you spent hard earned cash on.

    I can’t imagine it will stick long. People will complain. We will need to send Google complaints about this.

  • 123dude

    Oh god damn this! Google just fucked up the one thing they had going for them! I am so goddamn pissed right now. Do they just hate their users or what??

  • Jonathan

    Wow, I was kind of excited about the whole thing until that last part. That may not even be enough time to be able to see if the app even works or not!

  • AGx

    It wont hurt sales because the majority of people who buy smartphones wont know about this ahead of time since they don’t research what they’re buying, otherwise this site would have A LOT more users.

    Second, from a consumer’s standpoint I agree, its dumb but from a developers standpoint it’s a good change. 24hrs gives hackers plenty of time to backup my app and refund it.

  • jc

    lol. some of the comments here crack me up. yeah, 15 mins suck but I guess it’s better than nothing. So when did it update market for you guys automatically?

  • toolman83

    24 hours was nice, I can understand shortening it, but 15min is a bit short, an hour would seem a more appropriate length of time to try something & decide on its worth.

  • bmg314

    @AGx:

    With all respect that might be due to you, do you truly think this will stop hackers from pirating paid apps? If so, you are either completely naive or seriously underestimate the temerity and determination of hackers.

    No, this is a serious mistake on Google’s part. Hopefully, they do not insist on being stubborn and eventually rectify the error.

  • QuantumRand

    Refind window, blah blah blah, etc.

    I think a 24 hour refund window is better for sales…I have at least two or three apps that I downloaded and intended to return within 24 hours but just didn’t (either forgetting or not caring enough about that $1).

    At 15 minutes, I’m not even going to bother downloading the app in the first place.

  • Rdx

    They will see sales decline and roll back the change, calm down.

  • Troll Overlord

    What a bunch of whine asses. This is 15 minutes more than you get with apple. And no I’m not a developer but I agree with this new rule because if I was a developer I would get so pissed off and irritated seeing any refunds against my account. Basically we have the comment section which allows you to see reviews of those who have previously downloaded the app for me that’s good enough. As far as fragmentation goes and any particular app not functioning properly on your particular phone… well; that’s just one more reason to get a Nexus :-)

  • john

    is this some kind of joke? fuck this 15 minute cap. i think it was when Froyo first came out that they changed the cap from 24 hours, to 48 hours. that was great.. now they changed it all they to 15 minutes. WHAT IS THE SENSE IN THAT, THIS IS GOING TO HURT SALES GOOGLE, 15 MINUTES ISNT EVEN ENOUGH TIME TO DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL THE APP, AND THEN REALIZE YOU DONT WANT IT. and buy the time you want to refund it you will already have reached the 15 minute cap… -____________-

  • Seriously?

    Have you people ever bought computer software? Try returning it after opening it. Buy a movie or video game and try to return it after opening it…

    Quit whining, I’m sure most of you don’t buy apps anyway…

  • .

    Lol, no way in hell this will stop piracy, in fact, I personally will be more likely to pirate because I can’t return it as freely as before. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

    Bad move on google. Hope it’s reversed because that’s literally the only thing that got me to purchase any apps.

  • carmendiva

    Hmm, a lot to think about but ultimately not a big deal.
    If i were a full time android user, I wouldn’t worry too much. As said abouve, you don’t get the option of buying and refund period…And i don’t get that on WP7 either. I agree 24 hour is great but for me(and a lot of average consumers) most people use WI-FI to download and if an app doesn’t catch our attention nor work the way advertised, it will be asked to refund within in the 15 minutes. Most people will give the app a few minutes and afterwards get aggravated and want their money back

  • carmendiva

    Also, I just remembered that my mother who now owns Android phones didn’t even realize she could get a refund for applications…so a lot of average consumers won’t care that much(especially new comers…THis really affects seasoned Android geeks which is few and far compared to the new comers) and i doubt sales will tank badly. Maybe a little with some people trying to “Stick it to the man”

  • Nick

    So, how long would a 50mb file take to download on Edge? Oh yeah, nearly an hour. How the f*** does Google think this is fair??? The new large (pricey) games can’t even be downloaded before the refund window expires. Nice, real nice.

  • http://beesbuzz.biz/ fluffy

    15 minutes?! Sometimes that’s not even enough time to DOWNLOAD the damn thing!

  • http://beesbuzz.biz/ fluffy

    Also, “most users who return an app do so within minutes” is pretty weak justification. When you have a full day to evaluate an app, you can take your time to decide that yeah, you like it. When you have 15 minutes, expect that return rate to go WAY up, because you don’t have a chance to weigh the positive parts of it first.

  • InstantKarma

    Devs are gonna HAVE to make Lite versions, now.

  • Anon

    Stop bitching, guys. This will help with piracy issues more than a 24-hour cap would. Don’t deny that. We lack a lot of good apps similar to the ones iOS has because of piracy.

  • Xavier

    What about the content rating? Can’t see anything on the screenshots….

  • Angry Bird

    15 Minutes sucks. Google need to revert this back. I think it makes people more likely to pirate. Im going to avoid paid aps now because I dont want to get ripped off. The 24 hour refund period was perfect, I see no reason to change it other than to appease whiney dev’s. As usual the only person this hurts is joe standard user. Do you really think an app cant be hacked/backed up within that window by someone determined. If anything its a bit of a challenge and adds to the fun.

  • Xavier

    Oh, just read on the android developers blog

    “We’re also introducing application content rating to provide users with more information about applications they are interested in.”

    So, must be something new coming

  • Dan

    @123Dude

    Haha are you serious. Grow the fuck up dude. Really the “ONE” thing they have going for them. Dude seriously i think you should sell your android device and get an iPhone. It would suit your attitude much better. Little bitches use iOS.

  • Luffy

    Quit complaining everyone. Most apps have a light version anyway and cost about $2. You’re crying over nothing, think yourselves lucky you don’t have ome of the “other” devices out there and can’t refund at all. I believe this will attract many more great apps/developers to the market

  • Pieter

    @Dan,
    well said.
    people exploited the 24hour window. buy a game, finish it, and get a refund. complete bullshit. i agree to maybe increase the window to an hour. but the fact that so many of you little whores whine about the allotted time being reduced from 24 HOURS is ridiculous. sad sad day for the android community if you ask me (and not because the window period was reduced)

  • nobark

    Definitely a good thing. Android needs more high quality apps and games. This move will reassure devs that there is money to be made in the market and we should see more high quality apps showing up. The devs will likely have more demos or trial versions, and other than that you will have to go by reviews. This is more in line with all the other software we buy. Kind of hard for Google to tell devs that they can make money in the market when there is a huge hole open for piracy.

    Ultimately this is good for all of us and everyone will quit whining very shortly because we are all already used to this from every other piece of software we buy….

  • Bunie

    Its sort of a good thing, isnt it? Prevents people from buying something, enjoying it for x ammount of time. Growing bored and unbuying it.

  • jax

    yeah ok all you guys bitching over the 15minute window, grow the hell up and just learn to decide whether or not you want/like the app. Half the time, lite versions are avaiable and if not that just fcking live with it.

  • Chris

    Here’s the flip side. The 24 hour period allowed a buyer and seller to part in an amicable way. Trust me, you do not want to have hundreds of semi-hostile $2 users hounding you. For your mental health, it’s best to just let them go.

  • Franta

    As a developer I love that change to 15 minutes.

  • wojtek

    As a developer I think 15 min is a fail. I like to think users buying my apps like them. Now they will be tricked to buy them, this sucks Google… Wake up!

  • Davis

    Apple makes sure apps in their app store are at least functional. Google forgets it’s self, they aren’t apple. The google market is 90% trash. It’s imperative users have time to test apps since there is no adequate screening by google. Google is flattering itself here, and this after the massively disappointing new google phone

  • carmendiva

    lol wow people are taking this really serious and to heart

  • Bobbin

    Normally I would install an app I like the look of, and if it FC then I get a refund straight away. I understand what they have done but 1 Hour is more reasonable time to make sure the thing works properly. Having said that, the “device targeting” hopefully means it will work on your phone anyway.

  • tadzio

    I can see the points of both sides, the developers and the users.

    So, Google, why not let the developer decide on a per-app basis? Just introduce a “refund-period=xxxx” statement for the app manifest and show it in the app’s Market description to potential buyers.

  • Mark

    not occurred to me before, but isn’t this illegal in Europe? the Distance Selling Directive gives a statutory right to refund within 14 days on products purchased via distance means (phone, web, etc).

    anyone know why this hasn’t been applied to apps?

  • ade

    15 minute change is awesome. Prices will go down, because more people will pay smaller amounts, and developers will make more money. Which in turn creates a bigger incentive for making quality apps for Android. It’s all good.

  • http://ADWheelerPhotography.com ADWheeler Photography

    Is it me or does the interface look like an xbox 360 now? Also, I think that making it an hour and requiring that ALL DEVS honor that would be better. 15 mins is plain silliness, why even bother?

  • http://www.kittehface.com Terazilla

    As a developer, most of this sounds pretty awesome, but the 15 minute refund window makes me cry. Android is very inconsistent across handsets and I know for a fact that some of the custom skins manufacturers put on can make things difficult to use or problematic (I’m looking at you, Samsung), even on top of random OpenGL driver issues (I’m looking at you, HTC) and so on. A 15 minute refund period doesn’t give users enough time to confirm everything’s fine, frankly.

    On top of that, the Marketplace isn’t always the most reliable thing in the world. I get customer service e-mails all the time from people who’re having trouble with one of my apps failing to download for whatever reason. It’s the Market’s doing, not mine, but it still falls on me to reply to the e-mail, and I’m guessing now if this happens they’ll end up outside their refund period by the time the issue resolve itself. That means I’ve potentially got yet another e-mail to answer, since they won’t be able to return it if there’s problems.

    Maybe I’m just whining here, but I already answer a few dozen customer service e-mails a day and this smacks of a couple dozen more, and they’ll be the irate pain-in-the-ass type.

  • http://www.kittehface.com Terazilla

    Also, wow, this forum doesn’t seem to like paragraphs very much.

  • Daniel

    Seriously, 15 minutes is more than enough. Most apps aren’t that complex and can easily be played around with in 15 minutes. 24 hours was extreme and like Pieter said, it was being abused. If the dev feels like their app can not be tested in 15 minutes then they still have the option to release their own trial version for people to test, which many do. Actually, how many stores let you return software anymore? That’s right, little to none. If you can’t decide whether or not you like an app in 15 minutes then you’re probably a dumbass and don’t need a smart phone anyway. As for those claiming they may get interrupted, well seriously how hard is it to set aside 15 minutes? you can do it in bed, lunch break, whatever. Big. F’ing. Deal.

    This change will greatly benefit developers and likely encourage more to develop for Android. (yes, some where holding out for little reasons like this)

    On another note, I seriously doubt this will hurt anyone’s sales. If you aren’t going to keep it after 15 min then you probably wont keep it after 24 hours. The app isn’t going to “grow on you”, but if you think it has potential then does $1-2 really kill anyone? I mean come on.

    /rant off, and no, I’m not a developer.

  • Kris

    We should all agree to not buy any apps until the fifteen minute cap is reversed.

  • chimphappyhour

    15 minutes just will not work. I bought copilot when it was on sale. It took me longer than that to get it all registered and only partially installed! It still took me several hours to come to the realization that I wouldn’t be getting the maps to download. Nope, sorry devs, I probably won’t be paying for your apps.

    I can see Rovio’s model becoming more popular of dl’ing an app with ads and then paying within the app to remove the ads. Looks like the timing is ripe for them to open that up.

  • Maj

    You people never stop whining, this whole 15 minutes actually will be better for the devs, other than pirating, many people on Android purchase a game, play it, beat it by the end of the day then refund which is hell of a cheap act. And its not just one or two, i saw many people do that and some of them even brag about it in the comments of those games/apps.
    15 minutes is more than enough for you to try it, you’re telling me you cannot get to quickly look through the app in 15 minutes !!! it usually takes me less than 5 minutes to explore all of the apps features.
    lastly, you make it sound like you’re paying 50$ or something for an app or a game, it usually ranges between 0.99 to 3 $ which is hell of a cheap and cheaper than a Mcdonalds meal.
    So people stop whining and start appreciating what you’ve got, those devs work hard to get those apps to you and yet you still whine.

  • Maj

    and one more thing, this will probably encourage gameloft to get their games to the Market. One of the reasons they pulled their games from the market was due to 1-day refund, many people played their games and finished it then refunded.

  • Nickname3000

    I think an hour would be better seeing as it took me about 10 mins to download pocket legends yesterday if i paid for it i would only have 5 mins to check it out

  • Tim

    @chimphappyhour I agree with this approach. Advertising is there to generate income for the developers. Paying to have it removed also generates income for the developers. So it’s a WIN-WIN for all concerned, whether people prefer free apps (with adverts) or paid apps (without advert). Smart suggestion. Send that message all the way up to the intray of Eric Schmit’s inbox for his urgent attention.

  • Phil aka Storm14k

    I’m a dev and I was originally agaisnt short return periods. But after thinking about it I think this actually helps.the consumer. How many people have probably downloaded an app only to think.they’re gonna try it layer and then forget and leave it there. It makes you try the app on the spot. I originally said devs need to write apps that keep interest but a day is just too long. But I also believe 15 minutes is too short to try a productivity app. Make it an hour.
    -

    And I still believe the lack of refunds on iOS is what causes the sale numbers. People buy a whole bunch of crap they may never even use. On android you have to work for that sale.

  • Dean

    I am all for shortening the window if it will help the devs but 15 minutes is ridiculous.

    About 25% of the time, the market simply won’t install or bug out in some way that requires me to fix the problem and restart my device just to get the damn download to work. About 10-15 minutes in I finally get the damn app to download and install which was fine before but now is impossible to do and actually even try out the app.

    Please for the love of god increase it to an hour, it’s still a short time frame compared to the 24 hour window and will actually allow users to try out the app without having a panic attack watching the download bar and racing to discover it’s features

  • timmyjoe42

    With my 3 kids cutting into my time to try out new apps, I thought 24 hours was too short.

  • Lulu

    Developers will be happy to see the 15-minute refund time. No more exploiting the grace period.

  • Ben

    15 minutes is rediculos. An hour even is more fair. I cant get an app configured even in 15 minutes

  • Djgdroid

    I have purchased apps but because of the 24 hour trial period I have had time to try them fully and have not asked for a refund on any. Google really needs to rethink this 15 min. time limit. I love the open feel of Google but this is the worst decision Google has made. I have an iTouch that has been gathering dust because I can’t stand the closed Jobs system. I’ve even been looking at a Nook for my wife because its an android. In my eyes Google has really gone against all it stood for.

  • http://about.me/hoosierdiva hoosierdiva

    #FAIL sometimes you don’t know an app is causing problems until a day later…I purchased an awesome app but it drained my battery (super fast) and caused 2 other apps to fail, didn’t realize the connection until about 20 hours into it…minimizing return window …BIG mistake on Android …are they trying to be more like Apple? poor Android.

  • http://noodlesoftware.com Mitchell

    15 minutes is to short. 24hrs was good. I mean maybe at least 5hrs.

    Sometimes you might buy an app that schedules(Like Profiles) things and you want to test it to make sure it works, sometimes it wont.
    —-
    Wheres paypal?

  • Destardi

    Wow what a bunch of whiners.

    15 minutes us kind of short, but you do do have throw developers a bone.

  • Troll Overlord

    As a former exploiter of the 24 hour rule I’m all for the new 15 minute revision. I gave many game devs the shaft. here’s hoping this new rule helps these guys out.

    Also hopefully gameloft cathes wind of this and now decides to throw the rest of their catalog on the market now

  • moises

    People should buy and refund apps like crazy to protest hehe

  • Wesley

    To hell with consumer rights then. This will only serve to increase pirating apps even more. Not all apps are equal. Some are big, some are small,some are cheap and some are expensive.

    Like a gps navigation app that costs a lot could be tested in 15 minutes to compare it to another gps navigation app…I don’t think so.

    Google you’re a bunch of idiots, first no microSD slot in Nexus S and now this 15min refund window down from 24 hours…ho ho ho and a bottle of rum

  • tim242

    Ahhh, the place 4 SHARED apps : )

  • havranek

    Yes, developers who write crappy software will be delighted to know people can’t return they shit when they make the mistake of buying it. Those who write quality software doesn’t have to worry about refunds.
    I agree that 24 hours was maybe too much, but as others here said 15 minutes is way too little, especially if you take into account frequent problem with market that make it impossible to download the app at the very moment you buy it.
    Some of you say that the apps are cheap, but Americans are not the only one using market. Think about other countries where price is the same, but expense for people is much bigger. Like for me, a 3$ is about as expensive as 10$ for average American. Would you be buying 10$ apps right and left, not caring about possibility to return?
    As for the piracy, 15 minutes is just enough to backup the app and uninstall. So this is going to promote piracy, and even if just for testing, it will still be piracy.
    Long refund period may be a problem with games, where people finish them and refund in the same day, and there it should definitely be shortened. But for applications I don’t see a problem even with 24 hours. If it’s good, you will keep it for further use anyway.

  • Pitrick

    Wow most people here act like the world just ended…just calm down..life goes on!

    If you don’t have enough time in 15min…don’t buy the app and stop yelling in the forums.

    We are talking about apps that 90% of the time cost 2$ or less.. my morning coffee costs double that…and I can’t get a refund.

    My 2 cents…

  • lame

    i agree with this change, one hour IS more reasonable as i have had a few apps with glitches that you don’t notice till you get into it, BUT at the same time this will help PUSH devs to better their apps, instead of everyone refunding it, they will now gripe at the dev until fixed!

    this is better for devs anyway, we were truly spoiled with 24 solid hours of enjoyment before return. you could literally sit down, buy a good game, play it for many hours if you had time to kill and then return it after you clearly got use out of it and enjoyed it, this is wrong because you DID use it and DID enjoy it.

    just be more conscious about your purchases and read reviews people

  • me

    I have bought a few things and half of those did not work. I didn’t know that within the first 15 minutes, though, as it took longer than that to download with the crappy coverage in my area. Usually over night is when I discover the FC issues or the super battery drain issues. With this new policy I will never try out another paid application again — same reason I do not purchase ANYTHING on my iPod Touch. No reasonable trial, no purchase from me

  • rob

    15 minutes is still enough for pirates to copy the app, so I don’t see how this could improve those statistics. Please Google, make it 1 hour or make it selectable by the developer.

  • Franta

    I think all developers will agree that developing a good app / game takes a LOT of time and effort. One app costs about 2 bucks which is very very cheap, devs are often losing money on Android. But some people apparently think that everything should be free.

  • davi

    Sound off here: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=13116

    Click the star to submit your vote!

  • Ace Curry

    Hopefully this new refund window causes an influx of paid apps on the market (ie. GAMES!). While it does suck for us, none of us can deny how far behind our market is from the iPhone market in terms of paid apps (and a big reason for this was because of how unfriendly Android is for paid apps, a) the refund window is a turnoff for any developer, I am sure anybody would hate getting paid and have it taken away the next day and b) not alot of Android users even buy paid apps). I don’t see how “Google is screwing over the customer” by trying to encourage more development to expand the market. 15 minutes should be enough to know whether or not the app does what it says it does.

  • Lucian

    Wait…what! Only 50 MB for file size? How are games like Infinity Blade going to arrive to Android then, if theyare 300-500 MB in size?

  • Mike

    Meh honestly 15 minutes is plenty of time to get a refund. I would prefer an hour but most of the time I purchase an app it’s to keep anyways. Rarely do I buy apps just to try but that is just me I think I have purchased about 10 apps at this time and refunded 3 which have all been games.

  • tim242

    Devs losing money on Android? Give me an effin break! Most make poorly coded apps, slap a pricetag on it, then sit back and collect. ONE 99 cent app, let’s just say 100,000 downloads in a few months. You just made more than a Doctor makes in a year. That’s one app, and at the lowest price, and with only 100,000 downloads. I think devs have it too easy. They’re making more than 99% of all professions. They should have to work for it. But, some think they should just be able to sit back and collect. Some users feel sorry for devs lol

  • andy

    There should be a limit on how many apps you can refund in a given time peroid, say 5 per month. This 15 minute window is bullcrap and a disgrace to google’s open standards.

  • pimpstrong

    15 Minutes is straight bullshit. I’ll admit that I can try an app out and know within MINUTES that I don’t want it but that might physically not be enough time to know If I want to keep it. What if I download an app for my Galaxy Tab and just kinda like it but my wife or my kid might love it… My wife is still 15 minutes away because she JUST left work and my Kid is in line to get onto the school bus. “Hurry up Jr. fuck your homework for now cuz we got THREE MINUTES for you to try this app before I can refund it.” These are real life situations and 8 hours should be the minimum time to refund. Shit.

  • DenverRalphy

    There are some apps and games that have to download data after purchasing the installer from the market, requires registration/login etc… and the install alone can take longer than 15 minutes. 1 or 2 hours would be a much better compromise.

  • colby

    Wow. Reading the comments on this post makes me kinda sad. Honestly, what is the most expensive app you purchased for Android? In reality, what is the average? .99? $1.99? How cheap are all of you that you are SO ANGRY about having a 15 minute window to try out a 2 dollar game or application? I am not one to want to give away my money, but this level of ANGER is just pathetic.

    Android is attempting to make the changes to truly compete with IOS in terms of quality of applications and games. You don’t want the developers to continue to run towards the Android OS…fine. Bitch and complain every time ANYTHING changes, since that is typically what I see.

    I for one am happy with the changes. If it helps brings in big developers and I can enjoy games and applications that run as smoothly, look as nice and are as efficient as the IOS versions…..then I am all for it. I can’t stand the iphone 4 but I have my new ipod touch only because of the quality of applications that I don’t currently have access to in the android market.

  • OtisFeelgood

    F*cking crybabies…..

  • Aztec

    i say an hour is all one really needs, since there are people who dont get apps as quick as others limited to their signal. google do them the favor and at least make it an hour or two.

  • monkeydroid

    @tim242

    It’s not nearly that simple. A certain percentage of profits go to the developer which is, if I’m not mistaken, 70% and Google gets the rest.

    I think this will hurt developers because people don’t read the instructions in the market on how to use an app so either we’re looking at higher refund rates, more piracy or more 1 star ratings because of unsatisfied customers. Google needs to think this through more.

  • Casper

    I do believe this is a bullet to the toe in the android market. Free apps will keep rising, but your big bank apps 5 or worse yet the 10-20 apps… These are robust packages with countless features.

    I do believe we will see some stuttering in profits to the paid market for a short time. I am sure it will rebound, but why allow yourself the chance to lose any sales at all.

    I’d say an hour would be than adequate, or even 6 to meet that sweet spot of a qtr day trial.

    Even computer applications rarely go below 30 DAY demos.

  • JOSEHERSHEY

    Sometimes it takes more than 15 to figuere out some apps that bad for people that

  • ethan

    15 minutes is not going to be the end of the world. Lets all calm down and put on our big boy pants and grow up a little. Sure some apps will take longer than 15 minutes to know if you want to keep it but Google is not turning into an overlord that will control us they want to make money they are a business. No one made them give us 24 hours so they can it down to 15 minutes. (which by the way is infinitely longer than apple gives because 0 x anything != 15) And lets face it the majority of people that use android aren’t going to stop getting apps or stop using android because they only have a 15 minute window for a refund

  • asqwerth

    Like quite a few other posters, I am all for a shorter period but think 1 hour is a fairer time frame. Some apps need more time for the user to try and test all the many different settings and options.

  • Chimphappyhour

    Casper

    I think 6 hours would be fair for a trial of those apps with long and involved post buy account set-ups.

  • Graham

    I just got here, whats everyone talking about ;0

  • squiddy20

    I only just realized in reading these posts how easy pirating an app really is. I’ve honestly never done it, but provided you can download the whole file in 15 minutes (which you normally can), you can then back it up in less than a minute and refund it. This 15 minute window won’t cut down on pirating, but at the same time, I don’t think it’ll increase it either. It’ll just make most of us (the android geeks who know about this revision) more careful about what we buy. I didn’t even realize until a month after I got my android phone that you could refund apps. I stumbled across that little tidbit of info. Most general users won’t know about the refund policy cause it’s not really stated anywhere in big bold letters.

  • Aeires

    15 minutes isn’t a problem as long as there’s a lite version to test before buying. The downside though is that the market gets more crowded with duplicate apps. What will probably get missed is this new move will give more developers who are on the fence an incentive to write Android apps because they won’t have to wait a day to know if they made money off a purchase.
    -
    What was the old cap on file size? Was there one?
    -
    More organization is always better, glad to see the Market is finally getting some overdue attention. Look forward to future upgrades to make it easier to use.

  • Ric

    DE-LIGHTED about the refund. Refunds should only be for non-working apps, which any normal person can figure out in a matter of minutes. Eat that buy-finish-and-returners!

  • Bobert

    Thank you google for deciding I don’t need an sd slot on my phone.
    Thank you google for limiting my ability to test an app.
    thank you for being so damn anti customer.
    does steve jobs now work for google?

  • ccrows

    If there’s an app that doesn’t have a trial or lite version I won’t even look at it. Won’t change back until I least have an hour…

  • Spencer

    Google, just read these comments. I think people are a little more than angry over the fifteen minute time limit… Also, why the 50mb thing? I have 8gbs on my Droid X and would love to fill that with awesome games that are high quality with amazing 3d graphics (Rage on the iphone is about a full gb) sounds like a lot of my dreams of outshining the iphone crowd in awesome games has just been shattered :’(. Google I am disappointed in you, one of the first times ever.

  • 2FR35H

    Google should never had done that.

    Now that developers apparently had been crying about it, the people will seriously give them something to cry about. What makes you think shortening the window to 15 minutes is going to solve android piracy? its simply not, there are people who will buy the apps and simply put them up on a website for others to simply download.

  • 2FR35H

    @105.Ric.

    You must be a sorry ass developer. Refunds are not only for non-working apps its for apps that you dislike.

  • 2FR35H

    The android market is gonna die because of that 15 minute window. ALternative android markets will then rise.

  • 2FR35H

    12 hours should be the minimum trial period.

  • jdog25

    The 15 minutes thing is stupid sometimes apps take 15 minutes to download. What most people don’t realize is that some apps are better on iOS because every new iOS device is fast and can handle fast apps. On Android devs have to target phones like the G1 or else they get thousands of bad reviews from people who don’t know that their phone can’t run that app. For example Speedtest.net on Android and iOS look very different. I understand what Google is trying to do but they need to crack down on crappy apps and devs who spam the market bad, then this new time limit will be ok. Now being able to get a refund is good because on iOS if you download a fart app and you find that you don’t like it your screwed but on Android you get your money back and go look for an app worth buying. This is why people think Android users are cheap but we are not its just that we download an app and if we don’t like it we have a choice to get our money back. The fart app thing happen to me on Android I thought it was so stupid so I got a refund within about 1 minute. Honestly I don’t really regret buying that many apps on my iPod Touch as I do on my Nexus One but I’m talking about a small number thanks to Google’s old refund policy.

  • http://twitter.com/verspasian Versp

    Oh well, Android piracy here I come.

  • Chimphappyhour

    Er, those who say that the 15 minute refund window will result in better built apps are using VERY faulty logic. o.O

  • Anthony Mejia

    I dont know why everyones complaining when most apps have a free version before you buy the full

  • Aztec

    Okay i have one more comment to make some of these people are saying google is stupid for trying to stop piracy by reducing the amount of time we have to refund. but where in googles official statement did they say that that was a reason. it may have been but it wasnt stated. and 15 min isnt bad, but i do agree some apps do require more time to test and some just to download. i vote one hour would be great but people have to stop B&%ching. I bet most these people whining returned apps in less than 15 min. regardless i am sure google put a lot of thought into this like they do to give us the amazing os we call ANDROID. dont like it become an apple D%$k rider

  • http://ADWheelerPhotography.com ADWheeler Photography

    I still say it looks like the Xbox 360!

  • Bobert

    @Aztec
    suck that google cock a little harder buddy. Andy rubin is about to honeycomb all over your face.
    you google fanboy kool aid drinkers are as bad as apple fanboy kool aid drinkers

  • Bobert

    I don’t see how anyone can defend a. 15 minute return policy Especially given google was going to extend the refund to 48 hours! 15 minutes is a slap in the face to android users

  • devin

    Boooooo on the 15 minute refund limit. Google needs to stop fixing things that aren’t broken.

  • Brad 2

    All right all you ass wipe whiners about the 15 min limit. Google didn’t pull this number out of their butt. They did RESEARCH to see what the average time of a refund was!! I can tell you as a dev I’ve also done research on this and most people that refund my apps do so within the first 5 minutes or so. It’s not a crazy number.

    -B

  • tim242

    I’ll be getting my refund within 5 minutes, about the amount of time it will take to download and save with root explorer. I didn’t even know that was possible, until today. Ohhh, the backlash! Piracy will explode now! You devs brought it on yourselves!

  • Bobert

    Based on your response brad you sound like a guy who put out a shtty app and got panned in the comments section.maybe you should sharpen your skills instead of hoping Google bails your ass out by lowering the return time.
    whiney ass developers

  • Dennis

    18 mo’s with Android.. I’ve yet to do a return.. If I was to get suckered into paying for an app that was junk.. I think I’d know it pretty much immediately.. I also read reviews before I download a paid app. I’ll agree that 15 min may be a bit on the tight side time wise. 20 min to an hour seems more reasonable. Still I don’t see this change causing me to lose any sleep.

  • dan

    outside of the shortened return policy the new market UI is tight

  • Lulu

    80. Pitrick wrote on December 11, 2010

    Wow most people here act like the world just ended…just calm down..life goes on!If you don’t have enough time in 15min…don’t buy the app and stop yelling in the forums.We are talking about apps that 90% of the time cost 2$ or less.. my morning coffee costs double that…and I can’t get a refund.My 2 cents…
    ————————————-

    Very well put. Really people, grow up.

  • Richy

    @2FR35H nope, not a developer, just not a cheapass moany Muppet like you

  • MileHighDroid

    @ Post #49 wojtek: What apps do you have on the Market?

  • http://www.pooporchocolate.com/ teckel

    I always thought that 24 hours was too long. Heck, I can buy a game, play it till I’m sick of it, then get a refund. But on the flip side, 15 minutes is equally retarded. A good example is a program lets say that increases your battery life. How on Earth are you going to be able to tell how well it works in 15 minutes? In a perfect world, I would think the best method would be for each developer to decide what the trial period is as some apps may only need 15 minutes while others may need 24 hours. Of course, that could also cause a lot of confusion for users. But, I think a couple hour trial period is a fair compromise that would work for almost everyone (developers and users) for almost all apps.

  • him

    The new UI is awful….the wheel looks and feels like It was just slapped on top of the old market. I don’t mind the fifteen minute refund period, but would have liked a better ui. It’s a step in the wrong direction….in my opinion.

  • him

    However The actual app pages have gotten a nice upgrade. I guess thats what matters the most.

  • MileHighDroid

    @teckel: I like your idea and think it has merit to be considered. Having each developer decide how long the trial period is is a great idea. Confusing? I don’t think so. When someone downloads an app they usually focus on that app to either use and/or determine if they want it. How hard is it to see, when you download it, the refund policy?

    I believe that the 48 hour time period was way way way too long. Heck, even 24 hours is plenty of time to determine if you want the app. And actually, I decide if I want the app or not before I even buy it. I also read all the comments, as most of you probably do. Use the tools at your disposal to make the decision to take the plunge. Heck, we’re only talking about a dollar or two for most of the apps. Not an amount that is going to break the bank. It’s part of the cost of customizing your phone and playing. Google is adding more tools to help you decide too.

    Bottom line is, review the application choices, read the descriptions, read the reviews, check the compatibility and be picky. And as it has been stated before, you can’t open software and return it, you can’t open a movie and return it and you can’t get refunds with Apple or WP7. At least Google is giving us a choice.

    Now, do I believe that the 15 min period is a tad short? Yeah, I could see a half hour, 45 in or maybe even an hour. (I also support the 15 min as well) But I’m not privy to the info they do as far as when most apps get refunded and the amount of piracy that goes on. I believe that the cost of buying an app is part of the cost of finding what you want and like. Stop being so whiny and CHEAP!!!

  • IOWA

    What about those of us who buy $10, $20, and $30 apps?

    This 15 min is enough to test drive those?

    The 24 hour return period is the only reason I bought apps. Now I will go back to pirating apps before I buy them, if ever.

  • ACR

    Try buy Navigon and download 2GB of map data. 15 mins would sux.

  • CaptBebops

    This will probably foster more demo apps of the programs so users can get a taste or even “trial versions” which the market hasn’t in the past really been set up for but with the new licensing can accommodate (like those 10-15 day trials you find with desktop software). They also allow developers to supply a promotion YouTube video which could also demonstrate the program though so far (maybe because I haven’t received the Market app update) I haven’t seen included.

  • JOker

    Who gives a fuck for people taht say it takes longer than 15 mins to download an app well maaybe you need wifi. Cause that is insane and for people saying it wont b long enough are just dumb when I buy an app i research first than buy it and if it likes my phone and I like the app I keep it takes literally 5 Mins at max. I have never kept an app that I didn’t like for more than 2 mins. Your just plain retarded if it takes your longer. So instead of just downloading any app to try do research and then download it and there you go. You people think that the android fanbase is large well it isnt so it is not going to matter if “you” are boycotting its not going to harm anything and wont change anyting. Most consumers don’t even know what the hell is going on with andorid like we do so who cares bitches sounds like apple users

  • IOWA

    Joker = Fail

  • realist

    ‘The 24 hour return period is the only reason I bought apps. Now I will go back to pirating apps before I buy them, if ever.’

    @IOWA
    You’re doing your state proud ! I hope the people in line behind you at Burger King don’t have to wait 24 hours for you to buy that Big Mac. Be real ! You probably think a soda machine owes you free pop also.

  • Brett

    Well, I guess no more beating the game in 24 hours and refunding it. Or getting to a level I can’t beat and giving up.

  • realist

    +1 MileHighDroid
    Well written, completely logical.

  • Bobert

    @joker.
    Please stop typing in English

  • whatthe

    I will not buy another paid app! That window is freaking ridiculous! Google is just shooting themselves in the foot. How stupid is that anyway? Who gives a rip how frequently “most” people request a refund?

  • Bobert

    @Dennis
    This maybe hard for you to comprehend dennis But just because something doesn’t affect you Doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect others.
    I know this can be hard to grasp.

  • Brad 2

    @Bobert,

    NO, SCREW YOU. I actually have a great app with 4.67 average rating. I’ve made over 40,000 $ so far. It’s a great app. But just like any store, some people check it out and decide they don’t want it. The majority of those that do so, refund it within the first 10 minutes. I noticed this almost a year ago.

    -Brad

  • Brad 2

    In fact let me clarify for you dumbasses that can’t seem to understand what statistics are. I AM NOT saying “Oh wow! this 15 minute limit will help me screw people now cause my app sux!”. My app sells very well, but as any market some people will want to return it after trying it. That’s business. I have a 4.6ish rating and over 21,000 downloads and 890 reviews. What I’m trying to say is that over a year ago I sat down and looked at how long people usually used my app before they decided to return it, and it was a VERY short time period. Most were under 20 minutes. I’d say the average is within the 15 minutes that Google decided upon. Google can of course get these stats too, and I’m sure what happened is they analyzed the same way I did, and that’s why this number is not so far-fetched. If most average users really *do* refund within 15-20 minutes, then that window will cover the most average users. It’s simple business analytics. Get your heads out of your asses. And stop trying to discredit me, because it ain’t gonna happen. I’ve had apps in the market since April 2009 and have had plenty of success as well as failure. What have you done? Why should your opinion matter? How about you just STFU until you have some numbers to back your puny opinions.

    THank you,
    Brad

  • ilh

    What I don’t understand is if the majority of people return in that time already then why bother changing it at all?

  • Bobert

    Ok great brad what is the name of your app? you made .good money brad you sound like a pig.
    There are so many shitty developers on android lowing the refund time frame is a bad idea

  • Bobert

    You know the more you look at this the more piggish and greedy these developers come across as for most software applications for desktop you get plenty of free trials and in a lot of cases 30 day money back guarantees.

  • Bobert

    and you whiney developers get to expose your app to a. captive fuckin audience in some cases fuckin worldwide!
    so poor brad you have a worldwide captive audience that google has brought to you… oh I’m sorry brad did you have to go out and find your customers?
    Sorry do you have to spend millions on marketing advertising?
    oh boo hoo hoo brad a 24 hour refund window you douchebag

  • Kennon

    Hopefully someone from Google will read these comments because this 15 mins refund policy basically means that I will never buy another app from the market. In fact now I will first go to one of the hundreds of pirated Android app download sites and try the app out for as long as I want, and if I like it and remember to then buy it from the market then I will do so but there is a good chance that I will forget and just run the pirated version forever. Oh darn, if I were one of you devs I would be complaining to Google the loudest.

  • http://www.pooporchocolate.com/ teckel

    @Brad
    You paying taxes for that money you’re making? Back in the dotcom bubble days I knew all kinds of people who didn’t pay taxes on their sales and it really came back to bite them in the ass. Also, how are you doing State tax for in State sales? The sale happens at the buyer’s location, so if they’re in your State you need to pay sales tax and have a vendor’s license in your State. Sleep well…

  • James

    Bobert. You are biggest retard I have ever read on this website.

  • Bobert

    Brad your whining just makes you sound like a typical antisocial developer.
    just because people return apps quickly doesnt mean the 24 hours should be lowered.
    Wow all those customers downloaded your apt and this is how you want to repay them you’re a real class act there brad

  • Bobert

    Ouch james man I’m gonna lose sleep now tonight gee bummer

  • http://www.pooporchocolate.com/ teckel

    @Robert
    Why sugar-coat your messages? Tell us how you really feel!
    @Kennon
    Not that I’ve ever done this or condone doing it. But, is it possible to download a paid app from the market, backup the apk file, get a refund, then re-install the app from the apk file? If so, this would be the way to test an app that really needs more than 15 minutes to test. The SlingPlayer Mobile for $30 seems like a good example of an app you’d probably want to spend more than 15 minutes testing before you spent $30.

  • tim242

    @Brad: You talk so much shit, but nothing to back it up. What’s your app, big boy?

  • http://www.pooporchocolate.com/ teckel

    I’d like to know the name of the app also. If there’s a successful developer here with a good app I’d love to support him!

  • Troll Overlord

    @Bobert you cheap fuck! the 24 hour rule as well as market security has been cited by many ios developers as one of the major reasons for not porting their apps to android.

    You people complain and bitch even though android has the most free apps of any cellular platform.

    You paid $200-500 for a phone and now are gonna BITCH over 99¢

    You bunch of fucking PEASENTS

    DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS WITH SMART PHONES it’s the 2011 fad

  • Brad 2

    I’m not talking shit. I came on here to give people some real, hard data. And instead of listening they attack me personally or try to make some other excuse like my app is crap or something. I’m not defending the 15 minute limit – I’m defending Google’s arrival at the 15 minute timeframe. My app is Electrum Drum Machine. Just so you know, I looked through the order cancellations over today/ yesterday and found these cancellation times: 2min, 10min, 14min, 5min, 30min, 11min. That’s just a few examples. As you can see many times it’s under 15 minutes. I’m not biased in this argument. I’m telling you, these are the real cold hard facts! I noticed this over a year ago! So I’m sure this is how Google came up with this 15 minute number. They aren’t a bunch of retards you know, unlike many google users seem to be that can’t understand basic averaging.

    -Brad

  • Narynan

    Meh. I’ve only refunded 1 app and it took less than 15 minutes. However, I would like a little bigger window. An hour would be prime. But this doesn’t really effect me much. It is weird however to hear all these people moaning and bitching about something rather trivial.

  • Brad 2

    @teckel lol yes of course I will be paying taxes on this money. Why do people always ask that when they hear about a dev making money? Like we are a bunch of retards or something that don’t understand what taxes are. It’s not rocket science :)

  • Troll Overlord

    What’s really sad is the fact I probably make way less money than the vast majority of the mindless drones on here bitching right now.

    I’m just glad we have a return policy period

    Also i’m gonna take a wild guess and say the 50 mb cap only applies towards in market downloaded app data, not data that is downloaded in app ie. Asphault 5, Zues X

  • tim242

    @Brad: Answer this simple questiom: If most people refund within 15 minutes, then WHY change it? It seems that the average of 15 minutes or less would be an argument to keep the 24 hrs, not take it away. You act like you are so smart, but you fail to listen to reason. Walmart allows 30 days to return something. Their data shows that most people return items within 24 hrs. Should they lower the return limit to 24 hrs and take away the extra days for the people that need it? Your logic is flawed, my friend.

  • Chris93036

    I know. Usually everyone who buys an app and doesn’t like it will jump back to the market to uninstall and refund. Don’t hate Google over this. If your furious, go ahead and jump to IOS or WP7!

  • Troll Overlord

    @ tim THE REASON GOOGLE LOWERED THE RETURN WINDOW IS TO BRING MORE DEVELOPERS TO ANDROID THEREFORE PROVIDING US EVEN MORE CHOICES OF APPS. GO READ ABOUT THE REASON GAMELOFT HAS BEEN RELUCTANT TO PUT THEIR CATALOG ON ANDROID.

  • tim242

    @TROLL: IF THEY DON’T WANT TO GIVE ME A FREE TRIAL BEFORE I BUY, THEN FUCK’EM. I HAVE TWO SOLUTIONS: 1. INCREASE THE TIME TO TWO HOURS FOR ALL APPS. 2. LEAVE IT 24 HOURS FOR APPS, TWO HOURS FOR GAMES. 15 MINUTES IS GOING TO TURN A LOT OF PEOPLE AWAY, AND HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE RETURNING APPS THAT MAY HAVE KEPT THEM IF THEY HAD LONGER TO TEST THEM. IT WILL BACKFIRE…IT HAS ALREADY BEGUN!

  • tim242

    Just to note something…it is still at 24 hrs. Not sure when it will take effect. I have a feeling they will be modifying it, to more than 15 minutes. They have set off a firestorm. You cannot rob peter to pay paul!

  • SavageJeep

    I have installed the new Market and while I like the overall look and feel, it seems a bit sluggish. (After all it is a bunch more data to pull)

    Currently it still states 24 hours for a refund window. While I did not go further in the purchase to verify it seems for now the timing has not changed. This is not surprising considering this apk is just leaked and not officially OTA pushed.

  • James

    Bobert. Yes you are a retard because you can’t read. All that Brad is saying is that the time frame will not make any difference because statistically, at least for him the majority of returns are less than 15 minutes. You go off making all sorts of crazy assumptions based on a reasonable post.

  • MileHighDroid

    I don’t believe this will backfire at all. I’m an Android user and I’m not turned off by this at all. In fact, I feel the exact opposite. I believe this is Google continuing to grow the Market by growing the amount of developers and hopefully the bigger developers. From what I’m hearing it seems that some of the big developers have chosen to stay away from Android due to the ‘Open door’ policy that the 24 hour window allows. Heck, you can even see it in some of the posts above. One person said that he was going to start pirating again due to the 15 min return rule. Really? Once a pirater always a pirater. You believe that the 15 min return rule is going to hurt the Market and Android? Someone above said that this was the one good thing going for Android while another said that this was the nail in the coffin? Really? And you don’t think that pirating apps doesn’t hurt the Market and Android? You’re the ones hurting the Market, not the 15 min rule. All this article and comments section prove is the obvious problem we have and it sounds like Google is working on solving that problem.

  • MileHighDroid

    It amazes me how worked up people have gotten over the 15 min rule. I understand saying that you believe it should be longer, I can respect that. But to come out and say that the 24 hour return policy was the one good thing going for Android and that this was the nail in the coffin. And to come out and say that you are going to pirate more or are going to go back to pirating. If you pirate you are not hurting Google at all!! Google makes NO MONEY off of the sale of apps. The developers and the service providers do. 70% of sales go to the developer and 30% goes to the service provider that the purchaser uses. I think you need to reasses who you are hurting. Remember, the developers are the ones bringing you the apps you want, they’re the ones that enable us to customize our phones.

    Again, if you pirate you are hurting the developers not Google. And let me add that if you continue to pirate all that is going to do is push more devs to get paid through advertisements. Not that having a nice app for free is bad, but I know some don’t like the advertisements on apps. Complaining about a 15 min return policy is quite petty when it’s the BEST return policy out of ANY smartphone OS’s and is better than any software and movies you buy.

  • tim242

    @MileHighDrunk: It takes just a few minutes to back up an apk to your SD, then refund. So, a 15 minute window does nothing to combat piracy. What it does do, is piss a lot of people off, and cause some people to get stuck with apps that may take longer than 15 minutes to set up, figure out, or force close. Not to mention, prevent a lot of people from trying them out to start with. Your logic is flawed.

  • MileHighDroid

    @ tinytim: If it takes longer than 15 min to setup an app, as you stated in your above post, then how can you save it to your sd card and then refund it? Given your logic it DOES cut down on piracy. And to add to your argument, others have stated that it takes longer than 15 min to download an app. Well, given that as well, how would you be able to download the app and save it to the sd card then refund it within the 15 min?

    The fact of the matter is most apps take no longer than 30 seconds to a minute to download. And if they’re large apps, use wifi. I agree that some, and let me stress the ‘Some’ term, apps take longer than 15 min to evaluate. On these I say do your homework a little more as I stated in one of my earlier posts. (See above to reference this) Policies are in place to help protect everyone involved. A policy, in any situation, cannot address what everyone wants. A policy can only set standards and rules to help govern the situation. Policies do not conform to whiney people that only want to steal, pirate and make everything about them. It is in place to protect both parties equally.

  • tim242

    @MileHighDrunk: Taking 15 minutes to set up means to get the settings tweaked. If you were going to pirate the app, you would wait until after you pirate it to set it up. Try downloading Tasker and see if you can set up system tasks and figure it out in 15 minutes, much less an average user. But, you may be just an average user if you think it takes more than 2 minutes to back up an app with root explorer. Anyway, if they want to protect ALL involved, then it should be more than 15 minutes. You said yourself that some apps would require more time. What about all of the new users that just upgraded from dumb phones? Where is their protection?

  • Bob

    All I can say about the new refund limit is that I’ll be buying a lot fewer applications. If the seller doesn’t offer a free trial for me to try out first, I’m not likely to buy a paid app. There are plenty of free ones that will do most of what I need.

    The idea that it’s possible to really figure out an app in 15 minutes is ludicrous. I’ve downloaded more than a couple that seemed OK at first, but turned out to be unreliable, or cause conflicts, when tested more thoroughly.

    The truth is that 24 hours isn’t enough. Back in the heyday of PalmOS, most apps had a trial period of from 7 to 30 days after which they stopped working.

    We should all refuse to download any paid apps until the development community screams at Google to change this back.

  • MileHighDroid

    @tinytim: I think I stressed the ‘some’ term which you are deciding to reference.(Reread the above post please) And I don’t think it takes more than 15 min to setup an app. My grandmother figures out apps in less than 15 min. And hey, if you’re going to pirate it anyway then why are you getting your panties in a bunch? Those of us who understand this rule have no problem with it, in other words, those of us who aren’t looking to pirate. Did you read my earlier posts?

    As for the 15 min rule, please read my earlier posts, I can see it being a little bit longer. 24 or 48 hours? No need for that. 15 min, 30 min, 45 min or even an hour. But yes, the 15 min rule helps protect the consumer as well as the developer. Let me explain, in iOS and WP7 there are no refunds. That protects the dev but not the consumer. Going to 24 or 48 hours protects plus some but not the developer. As stated above some people download a game, play it and then refund it. Not protecting the dev at all. Now, let’s throttle that back some. To what? Well, a logical way to do it is to look at the trend on returns and narrow the margin. Let’s say that most returns happen within 1 hr. Ok, then a smart restriction would be to put it at less than one hour. This would help cut down on the amount of returns. Returns do not help to attract quality devs. Especially when other OS do not offer returns. Now, let’s say that the numbers show that most returns are done within 15 min. Then it would make sense to throttle the return period back to 15 min. Will it help with piracy? Sure it will. Will it end it? No, we all know that. But it does make the system much more fair for devs AND consumers alike. I believe it was skewed way in the favor of the consumer. And as we all know, people will abuse what they are given. Give them a foot and they’ll take a mile. Remember that old saying?
    Now, I don’t know if you have read any of my previous posts, please see above posts if you have not, but someone else had suggested something that I commented on and support. How about allowing devs to determine how long their return policy is on their own products? Instead of threatening Google, saying that the nail is in the coffin, that this was the only good thing going for Android and saying that you are just going to continue to pirate, why not suggest something constructive. As you can see, my logic is not flawed, threatening Google, nail in the coffin and pirating is flawed logic.

  • Bobert

    IOS will refund!
    It’s difficult but they will.
    but wait a second so what if they dont?
    I thought android was better than that!
    Oh but wait it’s a great excuse

  • SavageJeep

    At one point I thought I heard a rumor that the market was going up to 48 hours… I give this new policy 15 minutes, max, before a change.

  • tim242

    I am not going to continue to argue, as I have better things to do. I do not pirate apps (with the exception of swype, which is free anyway) If you read my posts, then you would have seen that I only found out how to pirate apps today because of this mess. Also, you would have seen that I did mention that 2 hrs would be a good compromise. Going from 24 hrs, to one quarter of one hour is crazy. That is a 99% drop. Can you imagine the outcry if walmart dropped their return policy from 30 days, to just 24 hrs? People have come to expect that they be given a reasonable amount of time to determine if a product is faulty, or to have buyer’s remorse. I guess that goes out the window on apps? Regardless of how you try to spin it, 15 minutes isn’t enough. It may not force close but once every 20 minutes. I should have the right to deem that unacceptable and refund the shitty app.

  • MileHighDroid

    @tinytim: I don’t know if 15 min is a fair amount of time or if it isn’t. I am stating that I support Google on the decision to tighten this up in order to attract more and better devs. Hopefully you read my earlier posts, but purchasing apps is part of the cost of customizing your phone and getting what YOU like. A dollar isn’t going to break the bank, would you not agree? Heck, even 2 or 3 or $5 isn’t going to break the bank. We’re dealing with $200 to $500 phones here. Now, let’s say that an app quits working for you after the return period. Well, get ahold of the developer and see if they will issue a refund. And in addition, put a comment on the Market under that app. This way others won’t get burned by the app. Then maybe, just maybe the dev will fix the problem and you will have an app that works. And then all will be good in the universe! See the logic here tinytim? There IS a way when we all just put our heads together instead of threatening Google, saying that it’s all over or just outright threatening to pirate and steal. And I know that’s not you, but I am saying it due to others will be reading this as well. We’re all on Android for a reason, because it IS a great OS and a great philosophy Google has. Let’s support it instead of tearing it down. Again, I can respect if you do not believe 15 min isn’t enough, suggest something rather than lash out. But on the flip side, respect Google enough to understand WHY they have opted to do this. Will it go up from 15 min? Maybe, but I understand why they are working to make this fair for ALL.

  • Bobert

    Troll,
    Are you one of those geeks from that Role Models movie who hangs out in parks pretending you are a Knight?
    I mean who uses the word “peasants” to insult someone?
    A social retard does.

  • MileHighDroid

    peasants? Who used the word peasants? LOL!

  • Troll Overlord

    @bobert Nah I’m just a person who has spent enough time bullshitting bullshitters to know when bullshitters are bullshitting over shit that’s not bullshit :D

  • MileHighDroid

    I see it, post #159.

  • Pirate

    I can pirate app in seconds. This doesn’t affect me.

  • Skunkpbguy

    24 hour refund period is completely reasonable and needs to return!!

  • Brad

    I think the 15 minute window is absolutely ridiculous. The fact that most apps can be reasonably tried out in this period of time is beside the point. In the real world, there are download issues, as many have pointed out, and the amount of download time could drastically cut into the amount of demo time you have available, depending on the situation. Also, there are many ways people can get interrupted while trying to install and test an app. This is simply one of those cases where they’re treating all their customers like criminals, and justifying it with lame statistics. It doesn’t matter that almost all app returns happen within 15 minutes. What matters is that customers are not made to feel like they are being forced to make a quick decision. Even though I still see nothing wrong whatsoever with a 24-hour refund window, I would be willing to drop that down to an hour. That should be enough time to be able to download and try out the app for a reasonable period of time, and should account for long download times and external distractions that occur while playing with the new app.

    I understand that developers want to encourage sales that don’t get refunded, but tricking your potential customers into not being able to return something they don’t like by imposing an extremely tiny refund window is a good way to go broke fast. Heck, retail stores typically offer a 30-day return policy. Imagine if they tried to impose a 15-minute return window (I’ll give you a hint: they’ll be out of business pretty quick). I’m not against developers making a profit on their goods, but treating your legitimate customers like crap is not the way to do it. I was also not a big fan of third party app stores, but if Google is going to pull crap like this, other app stores are going to have a great opportunity to grab sales by NOT imposing such a stupid restriction. But even now, before other app stores are alive and kicking, I believe there are many who will boycott the Android market because of this. I can’t wait for Google to see their precious sales numbers take a dive once this goes into effect.

  • tim242

    Well said Brad. Will you marry me? Haha

  • brad 3

    I agree with Brad but i do get Brad 2′s argument

  • Maj

    To the people asking for the refund time to be extended to one hour, most games on smartphones are simple and can be finished/beaten in one hour. As for the other people complaining that sometimes they get distracted with other things during an app/game purchase and they dont get the chance to test it within 15 minutes, i cant believe that you’re actually distracted everytime you purchase an app/game, i can understand it happens few times a day but i cant believe the coincidence that it happens everytime you purchase, unless there’s some sort of a conspiracy against you.
    Stop whining people and be grateful that this policy will encourage many devs to develop for the Android and again stop being cheap as if you’re buying a 50 dollars app/game. and i know that most of you people pirate apps so stop complaining.

  • Mysterious Developer

    Hi, I’m another android developer.

    15 mins window makes android very attractive. Listening to a bunch thieves whine about 15 mins is not attractive at all.

    If you can’t afford to spend $2 on and app, I don’t want your business. Please go away, and make room for people who have money.

  • Brad 2

    Would you idiots stop trying to compare this to returns at a retail store? WAIT……maybe that’s not such a bad comparison. Let’s roll with it. OK. Go buy some software as best buy. Open the box and install it and try it. Now try to return it. Your argument is invalid.
    They don’t allow returns for the same exact reason, it could be copied and then returned.
    So once again, your argument is invalid.

    -Brad 2

  • tim242

    Brad2: Games/software sold at Best Buy and Walmart is quality software by great game developers. They problem you ask? A lot of shit in the Market is coded by amateurs, and come with many issuea. Not to mention, the compatibility issues. When one buys ftom a retailer, one knows what one is getting, and that it will work. If there is an issue of quality, they will exchange first, then refund if there is an issue with the software. So, again, your argument is invalid.

  • Nick

    @Brad. Exactly dude.

    If you’re going to buy something on the market, Google the program, do some fucking homework as to whether or not you REALLY need it. Devs lose out on money because people copy the program and return it. 15 is enough.

  • shawn1224

    I’m not a developer and I think the 15 mins is more than enough. Of course you’re going to have your occasional instances where somebody might need a little more time to review the app but the positives far outweigh the negatives. This will finally legitimize the market, developers will see this as a cash cow and will want to code for Android. If you’ve ever experienced iphone apps, you’ll understand what I mean. Our apps are nowhere near as polished. Sometimes change is good people, I would sacrifice those 23 hours and 45 mins for better quality apps any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

  • tim242

    Shawn, that sounds all nice and peachy. But, do you think a refund period is why a lot of our apps aren’t polished? The app store has better quality apps because that is what is required of them to make it in. Anybody can put anything in the market, and that is what we get.

  • b1gg134

    Wait … people pay for apps? You’re kidding me right?

    The market is full of total crapware, it is a freaking joke. Maybe that is where Google should invest their time removing shit from the store. Oh wait a market with 100 apps doesn’t sound appealing in the commercials does it.

    I can download anything I want but even when I do download something I usually delete it because it is crap or doesnt do what it says. I do not remember to many FC’s so I think thats a real non-issue for most people.

  • Brad 2

    The App store doesn’t have a return policy, and people seem to be fine with it (over 1 billion dollars paid to devs). SO once again any argument is just invalid. I mean, if devs make a crappy app, they will get crappy reviews. If they make a polished app, they get good ones. The whole idea of “OMG I’m not buying anything now!” is blowing it way out of proportion. First of all, most customers don’t seem to know you can return it. Second of all, iOS does just fine without a return policy. Every other phone store has a no return policy, even when we had my wife’s old dumbphone. In that case they had trial versions. Get over it! Dev’s will work this out to get the right customers. If they notice sales decreasing, then they will make trial versions for people to test. This isn’t a static environment.

  • Brad 2

    Most of the idiots on here don’t even know how to make a valid argument in the first place.

    First of all they state “well even if the average return rate is 15 minutes then why change it from 24 hours if it wont’ affect anything?”. Hmm. So you just said it won’t affect anything. So why do you care?

    Second. “Retail software is usually higher quality, that why it can’t be returned”. Hmm. Wonder why its higher quality? Maybe because it can’t simply be copied and returned for free? Methinks so. The “circle of quality” has to start somewhere here.

    Perhaps come back when you actually have a coherent argument. I’ve already shown you that my statistics prove the 15 minute limit is not unreasonable. Other arguments you have are flawed, period. Maybe think before you type next time.

    The point is yes, I truly don’t care about the limit change. It probably won’t affect my sales. All I’m trying to do is show that the time is based on a scientific analysis of the sales numbers. It’s not just some random number, like some people seem to think and are getting their panties in a bunch about.

    -B

  • tim242

    Yeah, the science says most apps returned are done within 15 minutea. So, what scientific or logical argument is made for changing it? Ever heard, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”? It only hurts the small percentage of people that can’t figure out a shitty app in 15 minutes. Who does it help? Devs, of course. It’s preying on 15 minutes not being enough. Absolutely no wiggle room. You seem to agree with no return policy. So, devs should be able to code shitty apps, therefore steal money from people? Did you see the 4G Lte app? Duked a lot of people. This isn’t the Apple app store, a lot of horrible apps get in. You can’t compare apples to oranges. This isn’t the Apple app store, and shouldn’t be treated as such!

  • Charles

    15 minutes is a pretty long time for testing an app. and for those of you who it takes longer than 15 minutes to download, dont download a huge app somewhere you dont have good service, and if you do have good service, its a problem for your wireless carrier

  • Whap

    Maybe I am ignorant and this is a question for developers are refunds really that far out of control?

    I have refunded one app and have been on android over a year and have purchased many apps some I have installed and no longer use. I do not complain, even in cases where I uninstall paid apps I have never used. It seems that this issue would be such a small portion of consumers that it is just part of doing business……i guess I am wondering what percentage of apps get refunded in the first place 5-8% would be average for most of the retail industry.

  • Whap

    Also, if less people download your stop because they are more cautious will you make a lot less and have fewer downloads? In addition less market place presence?

  • triplexxx

    @brad2 and tim242-I never felt the need to pirate apps before but now-I feel more inclined, than ever. I don’t personally, care if Gameloft or anybody else decides to bring more apps to Android- I’m content already. If they and others show up ciz of a 15 minute deception-then I say stay away! Didn’t need you before, lol!!!

  • triplexxx

    Cuz * Tyler, sooo many comments from one article-only quenty kennemer’s articles could compare-especially since he has made himself known as the laughing stock who writes bogus material: ie, Sprint “officially” releasing 2.2 to their Epic, hahaha!!!

  • otto

    problem i have with a 15 minute trial is that the main reason I refund alot of apps is they turn out to be battery hogs and I get rid of them…there is no way to know this in 15 minutes. to all the devs saying this is a good thing and they are glad it’s 15 minutes because alot of people get refunds? maybe it’s just your app thats crap. most people wont refund if the app works well and they feel the developer put enough work into it to make it worth the money they are asking. I guarantee you I will be alot more selective with apps that I buy from now on and if they are over $2 I won’t even bother with them since it’s not worth the risk of paying for crap!

  • Presto117

    You guys need to stop whining. First off, the 24 hour refund period was absolutely raping game devs. People would buy the game, beat it quickly, and refund it with hours upon hours to spare, and it’s like the sale never happened. Also, a HUGE majority of refunds happen within the first few minutes, not after the 19th hour. Calm down.

    Also, if it takes you 15 minutes to download an app, that’s the carrier’s fault or your own for not just doing it over wifi.

  • tim242

    Whatever…it is what it is, we’ll
    do what we will : ) Now, back to our regular scheduled lives, already in progress.

  • InSaNeNoW

    I personally am the kind of person who likes to spend hundreds of dollars if not thousands, on a smartphone, the data plan, also wifi and internet in my house, I like to get the latest and greatest…….then when people sell software for my expensive phone and it costs more than 2 dollars thats when I absolutely freak out

    yes iphone doesnt have a return policy, BUT THEY DONT HAVE A MILLION PEOPLE MAKING DIFFERENT HARDWARE!!!!!

    as business decisions go, this one is not wise, I am sure the market will adjust as needed, no matter what happens, people are still going to buy awesome software and pay through the nose to get it, its up to devs to get theirs enough spin-up so people will be interested (if you want to make money, you have to make an amazing product) this is good and bad for all of us but only time will tell…

  • buckets-o-bots

    this was only a facelift. nothing really new, except for the 15min refund, so yay to this update…

    it should really be atleast a full hour. 15mins is barely enough to download and try anything.

  • tim242

    As of now, the refund period is still 24 hrs. Not sure when the change goes into effect.

  • ToastnJam

    I think an hour or two would be more appropriate. 15 minutes is not enough time to download, set up and research most apps to where you’re comfortable deciding on whether or not you’d like to keep it. I think everyone who opposes this new time frame should flood Google with emails and calls and get them to change it to at least an hour. There’s strength in numbers!

  • Brad 2

    LOL at you people who think many take the time to “set up and research” the apps. Just do some research beforehand. Man you act like most people are science majors or something. If you have a problem, just email the dev. In fact, this could also be a benefit, instead of people just automatically one starring it and refunding, and not giving the dev any clue as to why the app didn’t work, they will now be forced to email the dev and maybe he / she can actually get some real input for a change as to the actual problem, which will increase the quality. As for devs who don’t respond, well, one star, and they will start to sink to the bottom, and the good devs will rise to the top. Simple as that.

    -B

  • acey

    Wow, I have never pirated any apps before, but I may have to now just to try them out. I would be far too nervous with just a 15 minute window that I would get interrupted by my 2 year old, or have connectivity issues or something…

  • Brad 2

    Way to support developers, all you who now justify pirating “because I need to test it”. First of all, devs will probably more often have a trial version. AND if it doesn’t work right just email the dev for a change. (Wow, radical thought!). Instead people want to whine, “why aren’t all the big name devs coming to Android”, but then say “Well now I’m going to pirate all I want”. Yes, I’m sure telling devs that will really help the cause…..

    Dumbasses.

    -B

  • acey

    I’m not saying I would permanently pirate the app (though I imagine some people will), just back it up for a short while to evaluate it.

    Devs will come to android if people buy their apps, and I think this change will cause more people to pirate and more people to return the apps because they don’t have enough time to fully evaluate them.

    I feel that this change will hurt the market and will hurt devs, so I feel like the best thing to do is to let Google know and try to get them to change their minds rather than not saying anything because we don’t want to scare off devs.

  • jonathan

    I don’t get why noo one is discussing the benefits?

  • Andytrop79

    Am I the only person to find this new update really UGLY? What’s wrong with tabs – the carousel looks rubbish, taking up so much space.

    And the 15mins thing is bad. I understand that 24hrs was not good for developers, but surely 1hr is a good compromise. This will actually put me off trying new paid apps.

  • Kabob

    That’s odd, I got this update automatically on Wednesday without downloading anything.

  • dogbolter

    I am a developer from the UK and I think the 24hr refund window was fine. If your app is good it can work in your favor. Users who are in two minds as to weather to buy your app, will download it and try it out fully. If it is better than they expect they will keep it, where as if they do not have time to test it fully, they may not buy it in the first place. I plan to do YouTube videos of all my apps, that way you can get a good feel for an app before you download it. I get around 5% purchases refunded.

  • Isthmus

    15 minutes seems kind of random and unreasonably short for most people to become familiar enough with an app, to decide whether to keep it or not. While I understand the reason 24 hours might not be desirable, I would think that an hour or two would be more than enough time for most people. 15 minutes is not that great.

    That said, I agree with what was said above that the model might just have to be adds by default and then pay to remove them. That would let folks decide whether to keep an app or not.

  • One_Pissed_Off_C@mper

    WTF, are u serious? 15 minutes??? I don’t think out of the 9 or so paid apps i’ve tried out were uninstalled within the first hour even. This is BS, I actually came upon this blog accidentally while looking for a fix for an error problem i’ve been having with this new version of the Android Market that won’t allow me to install any paid apps. I had never even known about the refund change because of the error. This is just wonderfull, now I have three things to hate against the new Market. The third being it’s appearence, I know I’m not the only one who thinks the “carousel” and just the over all market looks trashy and takes up a TON of space, even on my Galaxy S phone. Google, as of now, u are on my list…

  • dave

    I don’t mind Google implements rules to promote fair trade in the marketplace….as long as they’re willing to implement rules to protect the end users too. I downloaded a “free” wallpaper app, which I immediately got multiple spam texts, which I immediately repliedd STO. When my phonee bill came, this duschbag billed me $9.99 three times on the same day. Luckily T mobile canceled the charges. Apparently this happens to people all the time. What has or will google do to protect the public against such scams?

  • Donovan

    For those pissed off about the 15 minute thing, I strongly suggest the download of the Applanet app. You can get all apps for free. The app itself can be found at http://www.applanet.net and is also free. Barcode Scanner is recommended for download.