HTC Thunderbolt Priced at $250, Motorola XOOM Will Go for $799


We could be looking at the pricing for two of Verizon’s most highly anticipated future releases. The HTC Thunderbolt, which should be launching in February, looks to be priced slightly higher than your typical new smartphone release at $249.99. The Motorola XOOM looks to get an unsubsidized pricing of $799.99 (we hope its unsubsidized, at least).

Both prices are sure to turn a few heads and strike up some lively conversation. The Thunderbolt does get 4G, but the hardware makes it not much more than similar handsets retailing for $199.99. Given everything the XOOM offers, we aren’t too turned off by the pricing, but with a bit of room for subsidy there is hope it might drop a bit.

[AndroidCentral via DroidLife]

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  1. Way to expensive the Xoom! Looks like I need an iPad!

  2. I personally don’t believe that will be the real price of the Xoom, but it could be. If it is, I’ll still buy it, because I can. And no, I haven’t used a credit card in over 3 years, so don’t bother commenting on my financial responsibility.

  3. Too expensive. I am sorry. All these Android tablets are coming out expensive. Why???

    For a product that doesn’t produce, designed only for consumption, I don’t see justification for that price.

  4. An over size HTC incredible and ipad look alike…..

  5. $799? Uh, no thanks.

  6. I’d pay the extra 50 up front for a 4g phone, provided 4g service didn’t cost any more per month.

    But no, I’m not paying more for a tablet than my laptop cost.

  7. Actually the XOOM price isn’t as bad as I expected. I’d be more comfortable with a lower price.. obviously, who wouldn’t… but I seriously expected this thing at LEAST at $899.

  8. Sorry Vz, my N1 runs Gingerbread pretty well and it was an unlocked Europe friendly device for $529 that’s performed much better than expected under CM.
    With you high prices, capped data plans, I’m not tempted to leave my unlimited ‘pay as you go’ $80/mo TMO plan :)

  9. WOW that is expensive for an overgrown NookColor!!

  10. $$799 hell no!! $599!! sound resonable

  11. The Xoom is priced far too high. 499 for wifi only should be the price point, with 3/4g going for 75 to 100 more. I guess ill just get another netbook this year if the android tablets are going to be this high. The iPad isn’t an option for me for several reasons so it looks like I am stuck.

  12. The Hardware Costs about 200$ to Produce?! What the f*** were they Smoking. I’m sorry to inform you, Motorola, you are not Apple. Your Products are not that overhyped. At least, now they are overpriced. I’ll take my Money elsewhere!

  13. 799? With MotoBLUR? And probably a locked bootloader?!?!? I was kidding about my previous iPad 2 here I come comment, but now I’m serious. Give me a $499 iPad 2 anyday of the week.

  14. Have we been told how the 4G upgrade will work for this yet? I heard an external adapter, which would suck worse than the $799 price.

  15. Congratulations Motorola…you have already priced yourselves right out of the tablet wars. Like others, I will pay $499 for an iPad.

  16. $799 unsubsidised means the subsidised price will be competitive (if you ever thought this was going to be a bargain tablet you haven’t been paying attention). Yeah, I’ll pay $799 for a no-contract xoom with an unlockable bootloader.

  17. I just hope AT&T won’t charge 249$ for their Atrix.

  18. Two Words: TOO EXPENSIVE!

  19. 799 isn’t that unreasonable for unsubsidized when you compare it to the iPad that’s most like it. A 3g iPad with 32 gigs of storage is 729.00, so the Xoom is a tad more expensive. Having said this, I’ll still buy it because like another commenter I can, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about buying a Notion Ink Adam, having the radio I want in it, and hoping for CyanogenMod 8.

    Hopefully the Xoom has features that haven’t been disclosed to the public yet that will make this purchase worth it.

  20. hopefully they will release a wifi only xoom, im coming to the u.s in February and im going to kill someone if they dont let me get Xoom off-contract

  21. Way too expensive, and will stay that way if it’s forever a VZW exclusive (and I’m sure it will be). Sad.

    The Adam is starting to look more interesting now.

  22. If the Xoom pricing is right, this thing will be a huge flop. Android tablets have to undercut the iPad or at least be competitive.


  24. How is this too expensive when phones are releasing that cost close to it, if not more. I think you all need some cheese with you WHIBE. Me, I’ll take 2 zooms day 1. Locked bootlegger means NOTHING. They will be rooted, and running roms, just like my “locked down” droid x.

  25. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Samsung sold what, like 1,000,000 Tabs, and that thing was $650 when that sales figure came out. What did you people expect for a bigger and far better device? Seriously.

  26. WHINE*

  27. Problem with the 799 price point it is mind set. 799 full price or 599 plus two years at 60 a month is a HUGE barrier for Android tablet. This carrier contract bullshit will only slow the adoption rate.

  28. These things are never priced at MSRP. How many of you bought a car at the price the manufacturer suggested it should be? Get over the price and just scream for more detailed specs. That’s where the cost will hopefully make it up.

  29. I assume this first LTE phone pricing is to help Verizon reclaim their investment and spendings into the LTE infrastructure. Consumers are going to be more accepting of paying slightly more for a phone that has LTE capability vs an increased monthly price for their data plan. Hopefully we see no price hike for LTE data.

  30. “MAP” means minimum advertised price. It’s not the same as MSRP. This does NOT mean these devices will cost $250/$800, only that retailers cannot advertise a price that is higher than $250/$800.

    We still have no idea what the MSRP for Xoom and TB will be.

  31. They didn’t for the lte modems, so there is hope.

  32. At that price I’ll just roll with an iPad. And screw the price of the phone, I need to know how much will the LTE plans be.

  33. I have been waiting for the perfect android tablet but with all this crazy price for android tablet there no way i will pay that amount of money for tablet i guess i will give a 2 or 3 more month beside a buy one but as of now i going with the ipad… i cant believe i saying this but i am…

  34. Let me get this straight….an EVO is $199 from Sprint ($99 in some places) but the Verizon version is worth $250? Wow.

  35. I was torn between the Xoom or G-Slate…guess it is going to be the G-Slate…unless they put some ridiculous pricing on theirs also…if so then I will stick with just my phones and laptops

  36. Its because the verizon version isn’t an evo.


    Motorola just killed all its hopes and dreams for the XOOM. And seriously anyone willing to pay even $600 for this thing which has a OS with no track record at all is stupid to say the least. Im so glad I ordered my Notion Ink Adam. Which I should see very soon. Also of which I only paid $550 for with all the bells and whistles and ” NO F@#$ING CONTRACT”

  38. I rather save my money for iconia.

  39. Oh and EVO’S suck by the way. My Droid X is faster on 3g. APEX 1.3.1, 1.4GZ

  40. This is insane. I’ve been holding off on getting a laptop in hopes the xoom would be reasonably priced. Haven’t looked to much in to the other tablets since I wanted 10″ and this was the best one, but maybe ill consider now.

    Im sure that’s the subsidized price as well since it wouldnt make sense for them to list the thunderbolt as subsidized pricing and the Xoom not.

  41. You say buying a product with an operating system that has”no track record”makes you an idiot, yet in the same idiotic tone, you brag about over paying for a product whose manufacturer has “no track record”. I love it.

  42. If they price it at 799 they may as well change the name to Motorola DOOM!

  43. Id rather trust a ceo with a dream. then some asshole company that pays through the mouth to make you want something thats probably crap. Ill just be reading my ADAM on the beach with my hot wife while your using yor XOOM as a paper weight and vanity mirror.

  44. Ooh, maybe your hot wife might realize my “hardware” is superior to yours.

  45. what hardware. seems like vaporware to me. oh were we still talking about tablets. When you have your $800 XOOM that does more than play demos do a video review id like to see it. all bullshit aside. I just like F#@$ING with people. good day sir ;)

  46. Bahaha, and you have said device in the adam do ya. Didn’t think so.

  47. remember how everyone laughed at this classic?

    Steve Jobs: “our potential competitors [in tablets] are having a tough time coming close to iPad’s pricing… The proof will be in the pricing of our competitors’ products.”

  48. Wow xoom WAY too expensive going to Norton ink they should have 3.0 by the summer (fingures crossed)

  49. Im going to buy it too because I also can buy it lool

  50. not that I can’t afford it…I am not willing to pay that much money

  51. all people do is whine its crazy why not just wait for it to be announced officially and see what the official price is? But all this aside I think having a tablet is more like a luxury not a must have so if you dont have the money to buy it that is lets say 800 but you are going to buy another tablet that is 500 to me 300 is not that big of difference and if it is to you than I think you should rethink buying anything that is a luxury if you are struggling for money. Trust me Moto will do well off this thing even if the poor people wont buy it

  52. blimey !!! expensive tablet, if it crosses the pond at the usual 1:1 rate that’s £800

    I can get 3 Adam’s for that !!

    sod the iPad, too old now , outdated hardware when they released it and overpriced, hopefully no2 might be better.

  53. Thunderbolt has 8gb internal memory and 32gb pre installed. That’s 8gb more than a 32gb iPhone and 4g lte for 50 dollars less.

  54. For those who are getting one regardless of the high price does the MAP period give any clue when it will be available? The map period for the Droid 2 started.11/3 and it was available for purchase 11/9. Maybe the Xoom will be available online only 1/27 then in stores later in Feb.

  55. @aaron

    Umm whens the last time you changed the kernel on your droid x?? Oh thats right, YOU CAN’T, so STFU!!!

  56. I still love the XOOM but now I want to see what HTC Scribe will bring to the table.

    They should have made it $699, would have been slightly cheaper than a full blown ipad, but still expensive so it has that elite status.

  57. Umm, I think you were talking to me. And, why would I want to change kernels? I can root, flash roms,do any thing I want to with my droid x. The locked boot loader is not an issue for me, not would it be an issue for 95% of the people beating the drum over it.

  58. Umm no I was talking to Aaron, which is what I wrote. But to answer your question there are a thousand reasons to want to change kernels. How about totally optimizing your phone (oc, speed tweaks, scripts, undervolting, etc). Taking it from solid to 100% superphone. My EVO is like a brand new phone these days.

  59. I can over/under clock/Volt to my hearts content. Scripts, check. Again, the locked boot loader is NOT an issue. Even for you apparently.

  60. Does anyone remember what the leaked price of the Droid PRO was? $299. Actual price when released? $179

    Don’t jump to conclusions on the pricing.

  61. Moto had my business til this price was leaked

  62. The price is more then reasonable considering many phones retail for well over $500. If $200 more is unreasonable for a high end tablet, maybe you shouldn’t be in the market for a high end tablet. I mean hell. I’d really like a Ferrari, but instead of saying they are overpriced, I just accept I’m not really Ferrari material. I don’t think they well lose any sleep over it.

  63. But a bionic without s contract in $600 so for $22 more you get 5 more inches and a custom platform. I bet its gonna be $400 with contract!

  64. i am very skeptical about this price. I plan on buying a wifi only xoom. If the device is $799, I will wait until I can get an Adam, root it and then put Gingerbread on there myself.

  65. maybe this is more of a portable computer than a big smartphone, iphone is a giant ipad.

  66. What a shame. Looks like I’m buying a different tablet :(

  67. get an iPad, problem solved.

  68. @nimse

    All you are doing is barely (working around) the locked bootloader and its 100% harder and WAY MORE risky to even work with. Anytime you can brick your phone just trying to root, or even load a custom ROM, its definately not worth it. You’re just barely scratching the surface of what truly unlcoked devices can do, dont lie to yourself.

  69. Nisme: if motorola do not release 2.3 or 2.4 for your phone (or leak the boot partition or provide the 1024 bits key needed to sign the bootloader) you will be left in moto last version, because the drivers will be not compatible with new kernels of future android versions.

  70. I’m surprised no one is bitching about the price of the Thunderbolt.

    250 for less than what the Evo 4G gives you? Just because its on VZW? We don’t even know the pricing for 4G and if Verizon will keep unlimited usage.

    One step closer to getting the (superior) Evo 4G

  71. Bricking the x is near impossible when rooting. It is a true root, and there was all of one click from the phone to do it. Roms are plentiful and there is really no more risk to it then with any other phone. If put my x up against ANY phone for real world comparisons. I know that many a phone can get better benchmarks, but a benchmark means nada in the real world. I can over clockand over clock to the same speeds as any other phone. I can change the voltage settings. IF I am “just scratching the surface”then all the other “unlocked”must be able to upgrade its own hardware or something. Maybe build me a house if I root. The ONLY thing I can’t do is change the kernel. Wich really only means I am stock with roms that are based on the current official version on the x. No gingerbread roms for me, till verizon and moto decide to push me an official version first. That’s it. ANYTHING else I want to do with it, I can.

  72. @monk, I knew that. But that is the ONLY drawback, and it honestly doesn’t matter to me. The point was, 95% of the purple beating the bout loader drum didn’t know what it meant. Evidenced by the comments above. People say “locked bout loader = no root (wrong), no roms (wrong), no overclocking (wrong), no voltage tweaks (wrong). Out of 57 comments, yours was the first to accurately portray the limitations a locked boot loader entails.

  73. A tablet is a niche product. Only the indulgent are going to purchase one and at $799 why not milk the market for all it’s worth before people realize that they’d rather have a triple or quad core laptop for the same price. The tablet thing is a complete joke!

  74. While I might be a huge Android fan and would always prefer an Android-based tablet, at the $800 price tag…any reasonably wise consumer should say forget this, AND forget the iPad – if you’re already spending that much on the Xoom, why not drop 200 more and land, for example, a VASTLY superior 11-inch MacBook Air, where you get a much better suite of hardware ports, more power, more hard drive, full keyboard, full software capabilities, but with a similar size, the same Flash capabilities and comparable portability. Really not sure where the decision makers at Motorola went to school to learn their marketing strategies, because you don’t have to have a degree to see that this really misses the mark.

  75. And by the way, if Apple announces Flash capabilities, or at least the ability to install or upgrade to Flash on the new iPad, consider me SOLD, day one.

  76. I agree with Joe 100%. I think motorola went to samsung university and over value their product. At the $800 price point it will be DOA.

  77. @joe, you say they are crazy for this prove, and claim notify will buy. You then say you will by in a heartbeat if one has a feature available on the other.

  78. @droid, $600 dollar phones sell like hot cakes. This is the right price point, just not for you. Moto is gonna do fine with the zoom.

  79. I agree with others that Motorola is pricing themselves out of the tablet market. As for the Thunderbolt – $249 seems reasonable for a decent 4G phone. But as eager as I am to upgrade my old school Droid, I think I’ll hold out for the Bionic….Dual core, HDMI out, higher res screen = no brainer.

  80. That Toshiba Tablet is looking pretty good right now. I wonder how much that’ll be. It’s pretty much down to the Xoom, Notion Ink Adam, or Toshiba for me.

  81. @nisme….huh?

  82. I will say what will be truly interesting is what they will price the wifi-only version at. Because if there was ever any doubt about whether people will hold off to see the details of that version, then that doubt is no longer. Unless you absolutely need 3G (and I really don’t understand why, with the fact you can tether to wifi for free with rooted phones), I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t hold off to see the wifi-only pricing, given the very high price tag of the 3G model.

  83. I just want you all to understand when the Ipad 2 comes out you better beleive it is going to be the same or more than what the xoom price is. You people are comparing the ipad prices with last years model. This years Ipad will prob have dual core cameras everything upgraded and they sold the 64 gb for 800 and sold a ton of them so dont lie to yourself you know for a fact that the Ipad 2 is oging to be in the same market price wise for this xoom product

  84. These tablets are so useless… and people are just eating them up. I’ll stick with my smartphone and laptop…. I have yet to meet or speak to anyone to have solid reasoning to have a tab when they already have a high end smartphone and a laptop/netbook/desktop.

  85. If you whine about price I dont think you should own a tablet. Its like welfare parents they will have a smartphone and pay for that but the kids wont even have a jacket for the winter this world is crazy

  86. What is a MAP Period? Also, I bet the price comes down after the impatient cough up the 800. There will be competition.

  87. The Xoom will not have MotoBlur because Google is using this device like the Nexus S. It will have pure Honeycomb without the added BS and Bloatware that the carriers will add to the devices. You people are BITCHIN and COMPLAINING about the device. With those specs $799 is a reasonable price and also you are dealing with Verizon too! We will see come launch day if this is truly the regular unsubsidized price.

  88. Neither Moto nor verizon will encourage the theft that is tethering on a rooted phone. If you really think they are gonna make a wifi beeson because of that, you are delirious. And yes, it IS theft.

  89. @Joker, don’t think that’s how it works.

  90. @anon MAP is ‘minimum advertised price’. Retailers must advertise this price or face consequences. They can sell the item for any price they want as long as the only show the MAP. MAP period is the time frame in which the retailer must show the MAP unless they are told otherwise by the manufacturer.

  91. Joker, even tho that didn’t have much to do with the story, I agree, what a sad time we live in

  92. Why are tablets so expensive? They have the same hardware as phones that cost half as much. The only difference is a bigger screen.

  93. The ipad 32gb with wifi & 3gb is $729

  94. but @nisme, it is already widely known from multiple sources that there WILL be a wifi-only Xoom version released in April, just like Samsung is releasing a wifi version of the Tab in April. And it isn’t done with the purpose of “encouraging” tethering to rooted phones, but to give people a much sought-after hardware version option (and cheaper price point option) for those who don’t want 3G. You buy the product, and where you get your wifi is your business…and with rooted phones they simply cannot stop your tethering capabilities; there will always be hacked options for this – you can call it “theft”, but the rest of the world refers to this as a “fact”. End of story.

  95. I think folks will change their tune once they see honeycomb running….and I mean no videos actually running. This tablet is going to do so much more than an ipad, trust me! This is a stock android tablet running 4g, and sexy hardware to boot! Some of us will be very happy on the day of release, some of you will be waiting in line when they sell out the first week! And yes even at that price point!

  96. @Matt, point taken, but I think that in reality the biggest problem, and the biggest reason that Samsung and Moto won’t be able to compete with the iPad is that they, for whatever reason, refuse to come out with multiple hardware options at multiple price points from day one. I couldn’t imagine how many less iPads would have sold if the only hardware option was the one you mentioned, as a good many people (probably the majority) don’t want 3G and have no need for that much internal storage on a tablet device. The difference is that Moto and Sammy are tucked snugly into the back pockets of the wireless companies, and the prime focus is clearly on selling wireless plans with them, which is so far beyond ridiculous. I’ve said it before – its like if Ford decided to hook up with Sunoco and make it so that in order for you to get a halfway reasonable price on that new sedan, you have to sign a 2-year fuel contract with Sunoco. People just want the HARDWARE – wireless should just be an OPTION!

  97. With any luck, hopefully they’ll hit closer to that 500-600 price point for the wifi-only version…THEN they’ll actually do some half-way respectable sales…but not until then.

  98. Well I never heard anything from any sources of a wifi version. And yes, it is a fact that people will always streal.

  99. And you are retarded if you think IF they release a wifi version it will be 2 to 3 hundred dollars cheaper. I doubt they will even release a wifi version, but….

  100. Wow, all I can say is Some of you don’t belong on a tech blog complaining about price. This is a tech blog everything we discuss here is expensive, and a luxury. Don’t buy the damn thing if your cheap go buy your iPad with no camera. Complain, complain, complain that’s all I heard.

  101. I said all along, they hit the right price point.

  102. Never said a wifi only version would be 200-300 cheaper, but at least 100-200 would be more than reasonable. BTW, feel free to Google “wifi only version Xoom”. What rock have you been living under, @Nisme? And while it may be a fact that some people will always steal, it is also a fact that there will be many holier-than-thou people like yourself who will look down their nose at the common man or woman who will work to do whatever is in their power to get one up on the big companies that rule the world and protect the money that we all earn – by any means possible.

  103. @1ofdakoolkidz, genius, the story that was posted on this very tech blog pertained specifically and 100% to the price of the item(s) in question. You need to take it up with the fine folks at Phandroid if you don’t like stories about the price of tech items being written and talked about on a tech blog. Phandroid obviously thought it was a pertinent story, and so here we are sharing our opinions on it.

  104. People comparing an $800 Xoom and $729 iPad 1 (released a year ago!) are being extremely short sighted. The iPad 2 is coming. Soon. It will have cameras, similar HW specs and it may even have a retina display (though I’m skeptical). It will be everything the Xoom is hardware wise, and it will almost certainly have cheaper options from day one.
    People’s reaction to the Xoom’s price is so harsh because no one really wants another data plan (IMO). Like me, they want a couch tablet. Most people will see this as choice between $800 and $500. Not $800 and $730.
    Then there is the problem of reputation. The Xoom has very little mind-share and certainly hasn’t earned the right to be considered “better” in any way yet. Certainly not $300 better.

  105. does open source save any money at all? Where is the supposed cost saving with android? The consumer certainly doesn’t see the saving..

  106. Dude stealing is stealing. If you steal a price if gum, your a thief. Doesn’t matter if you steal it from your neighbor, or wal mart. MOTO has yet to say ANYTHING about a wifi version, do anything you think you know is speculation at best. As for a wifi version being 1 to 2 hundred bucks cheaper, makes no sense. 3g radios cost all of $20.

  107. And when you steal from any company, it isn’t really the company you hurt, rather the rest of their customers. So go ahead and steal that 20 bucks. I’m not too cheap to spend it, and it is sad that someone with a500 dollar phones feels the need to.

  108. Why would map pricing show 2 items that are not for sale yet with a start date of yesterday? An item must have a launch date set and then it would be mapped from that date. Doesn’t look real to me…

  109. The main reason for the ipads succes is it’s low entry price of $499. Pricing the Xoom higher than $600 is a mistake imo and making it available off contract is a must since most people don’t want any more contracts.$799 is just way too much money for these toys.

  110. hmm…If I end up getting this thing on a subsidized price, say $450 and it is only WiFi, i think I will just tether the darn thing to my Thunderbolt. xD

  111. And how do you expect to get a subsidy on a wifi only version?

  112. will it have hdmi output
    will it be slow because of no dual core
    this or the bionic or the incredible
    battery life good or no good

  113. The Iphone will outsell the Thunderbolt if the price is correct. The need to match the iPhone or go lower.

  114. They did “go lower” the 32 gig iphone is 300, the 40 gig thunderbolt is 250. Not to mention 4g.

  115. whaaa!! 800 dollars for the xoom wow good look with that!

  116. @Nisme…..lol, I totally had a brain fart, “strike that, reverse it” you are of course correct. Oh well hopefully this price is bogus.

  117. @ swazedahustla, I agree with Nisme your a fucking idiot and dont know your head from your ass. There are ways for me to change my kernel, but its not worth my time when I can (oc, speed tweaks, scripts, undervolting, etc) with doing it the stupid dangerous way like you. I owned the original droid and a g1 and did all that shit before you proly knew android excisted at all. all I do now is run one app that does it all for me. you should post some screenies of your shitty Evo for all to see. It doesnt really matter what phone i have i make it do what i want.

  118. @nisme you should try APEX 1.3.1 by fabulous. Its got lots of gingerbread flavor and just enough bur mixed in. most stable rom ive ever used.

  119. At that price the ViewSonic GTablet looks more and more attractive. $800 is just to much $$$ for a glorified phone. I really would like a tablet but considering its almost 3x the cost of a netbook, which is much more capable, Moto is out of their minds. And considering a high end Ipad2 will likely be around that same price point the Xoom should be $600 max unsubsidized.

  120. @Arron…. Take your Droid X and sholve it where the sun don’t shine… EVO rules that trashy Droid.. Sprint rules shitty ass Verizon

  121. I will just wait till mobile world congress or ctia to see what my main manufacturer has up there sleeve… NO need to rush still have the best device on the market right now on the best carrier in the industry where UNLIMITED DATA IS UNLIMITED DATA NOT TIERED OR CAPPED… EVO POWER

  122. Suddenly I don’t feel so bad about dropping $500 on my Galaxy Tab. Plus I have it now, don’t have to wait for XOOM to come out, and some dev will ensure that I get Honeycomb on it some day.

  123. Bring on the Adam!!!!

    Sound familiar? :)

  124. @richard, I regularly hit 5-10 gigs, no worries of any cap. And I can USE my phone ANYWHERE I want.

  125. $799 is way too expensive. Who would buy that over a $500 iPad?

  126. 799 is a bit steep. Xoom does look quite a bit better than ipad 32GB ($599 guys, at least compare to the right one?). The $200 premium seems justified. The question is whether I would pay 800 bucks for it. Would I take ipad over this? Absolutely not. Ipad is useless.

  127. I have a solution for Motorola. Give us the Xoom 16 GB for 599.
    Also, next time you design a 10.1″ tablet, put 2 or 3 expansion slots in there. Don’t even tell me there is no space for it.

  128. I cant understand why you people are crying over the thunderbolt. Its 50 dollars more big woop. You act like its 2500 dollars.

  129. this cant be true. it says 1/21/11 for thunder bolt, its not even out yet…

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