Qualcomm back pedals, says 64-bit computing in Apple’s A7 processor is no longer a gimmick

Apple A7 slide

Back when the iPhone 5s was announced, Apple made a big deal about Apple’s all new A7 processor and the 64-bit capabilities therein. While only offering limited benefit at this point in time (no software to utilize it, not enough RAM in mobile devices to matter), it was a bigger number. One that the competition simply couldn’t offer, and one that essentially future proofed the 5s.

Last week, Qualcomm’s CMO Anand Chandrasekher shared his thoughts on Apple’s new A7 SoC, calling the 64-bit capabilities as nothing more than a “gimmick”. Ouch. In an interview, Chandrasekher explained:

“I know there’s a lot of noise because Apple did [64-bit] on their A7. I think they are doing a marketing gimmick. There’s zero benefit a consumer gets from that.”

Of course, the quote made headlines around tech circles and it didn’t take long for Qualcomm PR team to start doing a little damage control. In a statement issued today, Qualcomm specifically addressed Chandrasekher’s comments on the A7’s 64-bit processor, calling them “inaccurate”.

According to Qualcomm, mobile software is already moving towards 64-bit. It’s a move Qualcomm is already eying in the near future (gimmick or not) with their upcoming Cortex A53 and A57 chips. As our smartphones are just now hitting 3GB of RAM, 4GB is likely right around the corner. Just wait until we see next year’s Samsung Galaxy Note 4.

[CNET]

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  • Joshua Hill

    Recently Qualcomm has been worse than Nvidia and Microsoft in talking bullshit about their competitors. Don’t they realise it makes them look worse than their targets.

    • Javi Gomez

      Samsung?

      • simpleas

        Samsung what? idiot Samsung doesn’t talk shiet, they just make shiet. gtfo ifag

        • Javi Gomez

          Haha, defend yourself a little more why don’t cha. I guess you can’t state opinions on this site.

          • BillySuede

            that’s not an opinion. that’s an accusation you levied without any proof to back it up.

    • simpleas

      exactly how I felt about Qualcomm. They’ve been doing a lot of shiet talking.

      • malcmilli

        and i love it

    • PhishyKris

      Agreed, but its not like you would decide which phone to buy based on the components?! QC technology is in almost everything on the planet in some form.

      • steveb944

        Hence why Samsung makes the processor for Apple.

    • scoter man1

      No kidding. Nvidia is sitting there shooting their mouth off about their graphics cards while their drivers have went to crap. Now AMD is back in the running. Potentially better in some regards (especially price).

      • Joshua Hill

        What’s the problem with Nvidia’s drivers?

  • Dan Fryling

    Well for Apple it was probably a good move since they will be selling the 5s for years to come. But for those of us who will never buy any thing Apple sells, it doesn’t really matter, because we will have 64 bit processors when it becomes useable.

    • Michael Lee

      How amazing would it be someday to have an android desktop interface? Somewhat like what Linux Touch is trying to do in that when you plug it into a TV or monitor, it shows the desktop Linux interface. I would love to eventually see Android as more than just a mobile os, but instead a unified container of mobile, PC, and gaming all in one from the same device. That’ll be when 64 bit is helpful. :)

      • KoRRo

        i like the idea but i prefer microsoft approach. i think that a complete ecosystem made of different and specialized operating systems that works toghether is far better than an unique OS.

        • Marsg

          Microsoft’s approach is great, there implementation of it sucks, a bunch of tiles on a phone is ok but a UI like that on a PC just looks like a teaching aid for kindergartners.

    • ari_free

      It gives iPhone fans a talking point otherwise they’d have nothing to offer except for a fingerprint scanner. They can’t bring other new hardware features because they need other companies, like Samsung and Foxconn, to build everything for them.

    • feztheforeigner

      But in those years to come the iPhone 5s will still only have 1GB RAM…

  • Marsg

    Qualacom is right this is just taken out of context, in the iPhone it is considered a gimmick since it cant take advantage of the 64 bit but as an idea of having a 64 bit processor in a phone its pretty much a given, smartphones have been evolving really fast, they went from 16 bit to 32 and now 64, its nothing new really, its just like having a more powerful SOC every year.

    • Drew M

      It’s a gimmick in the sense that current 32-bit processors are already significantly underutilized for the applications that people are using. Probably greater than 99.999% are using their phones for email, Facebook, Twitter, web browsing, taking quick pictures, and casual games.

      I know that technology has to keep moving forward, but keep in mind that ARMv8 and the A57 were designed for last year to allow ARM processors to penetrate the server space, and eventually trickle down into consumer devices, not to fill a deficiency in current processors. It’s especially true for Apple–how many of their generally tech-naive userbase honestly understands what the heck 64-bit even means? It’s a really strange marketing angle.

      • ari_free

        Yeah, Apple never cared about getting high end PC games on their macs. They get excited over 2D games such as Plants vs Zombies 2.

        • tiger

          Android is still waiting for theirs……….

          • das

            iphone still waiting for a HD display loool and multitasking and NFC

      • tiger

        How is it that iSheeps are tech naive, while Android folks are tech savvy? From comments like yours and others, i assume tech naive exist here too.

        The bottom line is that ARMv8 has been around…Qualcomm chose to ignore it and go the way of core counts and GHz. Samsung went over the deep end with Octa.

        Apple went with ARMv8 and 64-bit. Remember, S800 and A7 came out at the same time…maybe less than a month difference b/w mass production. Apple A7 beat S800 soundly in pretty much everything. Qualcomm had its chance and lost. Now, they whine about it…like some of you here.

        Accept defeat and move on. Talking about 4GB of RAM is idiotic and shows clearly your tech NAIVEness.

        • ratnok

          No, what it shows is that you have absolutely no clue about memory addresses, integers, or computer architecture in general.

          • tiger

            Ok…and how are those achieved? ARMv8? 64-bit? Does it make a difference? Nope. The bottom line is that Apple went an “innovative” route and got amazing performance out of something simple. Qualcomm and Samsung went the same old route (more cores & more GHz and bigger battery!) and got dominated by Apple. Embarrassing.

          • das

            samsung dominated apple by making more money ,selling more phones ,having a FULL HD super AMOLED display ,more RAM ,REAL multitasking ,better battery life ,better app reliability ,better voice control ,better UI feature set ,better audio ,better camera and features

        • ari_free

          The iPhone 5S only has 1 GB of ram. Everyone else is 2 or even 3 GB of ram. You now have a better horse and buggy but it’s still a horse and buggy.

        • Marsg

          The s800 completely wipes the floor with the a7 it might not seem like it because its running on devices with 3x more pixels and the apps aren’t as optimized on Android but in terms of GPU its almost 10% more powerful and 15% in CPU and its not 64 bit lol

          • tiger

            Read my response above. LEARN to interpret benchmarks before posting PLEASE!! You do NOT know what you’re talking about. Where is this 10% and 15% coming from? Your butt?

        • Drew M

          The S800 is last year’s SOC architecture. The Krait cores and the Adreno GPU are improved over the S4Pro and the S600, but it’s still 2012 technology. Regardless, the difference between the S800 and the A7 is meager and irrelevant.

          Apple’s target demographic skews toward females and the baby boomer generation more than Android. They are, as a general statement, less tech-savvy. There is a lot of crossover, I know.

          I’m aware of the theoretical advantages that ARMv8 brings. It’s not much unlike what we saw with AMD64. The practical advantages will be imperceptible to everyone expect the losers like you that get off on mobile benchmarks. People will not get a vastly different experience on a iphone5S versus an iphone5. 64-bitness is a marketing gimmick.

          • tiger

            No. S800 Krait and Adreno 330 are very new. S800 was released in September of THIS year. Maybe mid October if you count Sony phablet. It is a 2013 chip. There is no denying this. Yeah, Qualcomm has been advertising it since last year, but was not available to anyone until last month. Thus, GS4 and HTC One have to make due to S600.

            A7 is very much a 2013 chip, and probably designed in 2012 too. Released last month, like S800. No difference dude. No difference at all.

            The only difference is in the design philosophy. Qualcomm (and Samsung) chose to keep the same path even when ARMv8 was available. They did not want to do R&D on it because it was too much of a fresh start. Apple saw the massive potential of ARMv8 (power and efficiency) and invest R&D into it to make it possible.

            As for demographics, i think that Apple has everyone covered dude based on the latest surveys…teens to old folks to businesses!! The last part is very important. Yeah, your argument is wrong.

            Theoretical? What is theoretical about it? See my post above. DEVELOPERS for both OS are seeing the HUGE advantages of A7 over Android top phones!!!!!!!!! Why are you ignoring this? A7 is able to do things that NO OTHER PHONES CAN DO. That is FACT, not theoretical. Marketing? Sure, tell yourself that. Denial is a sad pathetic thing to see in another human being.

            BTW, unlike PC 64-bit conversions, Apple is able to do this conversion very quickly because they control everything. Thus, 64-bit compilers, instructions, etc. are all ready for developers to use and frankly, developers are finding that the conversion is quick and painless, unlike the PC world.

            READ UP dude to stop sounding ignorant. Most of what you wrote is wrong and are just garbage that is regurgitated by Android fanboys. Don’t be one of them.

      • Marsg

        Its like a placebo effects lol

    • tiger

      see my post above from developers’ mouth.

      • Marsg

        Yes because that has nothing to do with the new GPU/CPU, the iPhone is going to be faster than its predecessor no matter what , 64 bit or not.

        • tiger

          No. Stop with the pixel argument…it does NOT work. OFF-SCREEN benchmarks levels the playing field. Your argument is faulty and bad. Off-screen benchmarks equalizes pixel desity and screen sizes. A7 still dominates S800. PowerVR latest GPU is superior to Adreno 330. FACT.

          As for apps not being optimized…well, that is Android/Google’s problem for having crappy apps. Benchmarks are not affected by this.

          For example, Google OCTANE benchmarks generally favors Android (esp. those using Chrome). iPhone 5S DOUBLES that of the next place winner (LG G2)! Embarrassing! Pure utter destruction even on Android’s playing field!

          Whatever it is…A7 came out same time as Qualcomm S800. A7 destroys S800 in everything, despite being clocked at 1.3GHz, only 2 CPU cores, and having 1GB RAM. (S800 meanwhile relies on 2.3GHz speed, 4 cores, and 2-3 GB RAM!)

          Respect engineering where deserving. Qualcomm got embarrassed by Apple. Samsung OCTA is a joke.

          • das

            and samsung MADE the a7 processor ,ahahahah ,the note 3 still rapes iphone 5s ,its just better ,u bang on earlier about ” android is all about specs ” thenfor 90% of your posts u bang on about the a7 specs ? what a prat ,go home loool

  • M0nk

    For a Linux 32 bit kernel it’s totally possible to address more than 4GB RAM and considering that android has a Linux kernel this is not a limitation. 64 bit is not necessary right now in mobile, maybe in some years.

    • Brian

      PAE is an x86 feature and requires downstream support beyond the CPU.

      Regardless, the new ARMv8 has more registers, amongst many other new features, which will greatly improve performance. They need this to expand ARM systems into servers and ‘PC’s (think phone docking station).

  • tiger

    A7 is not a gimmick. Geez, so much mis-information and fanboyism! The app industry is now starting to catch on and using it to max effect: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/10/04/apples-64-bit-a7-already-powering-advanced-new-audio-video-features-in-apps-and-games

    Quotes:

    Karim Morsy of Germany’s Algoriddim noted that “optimizing djay 2 for the 64-bit A7 chip has allowed us to bring desktop-class power to our iPhone app.”

    “Moreover,” Morsy added, “we have measured game-changing performance boosts with our video mixing app vjay which also leverages the A7’s 64-bit architecture on iPhone 5s. HD video playback, mixing, effects, and recording on iPhone 5s brings more than double the video render resolution, processing more than 4 times more video data in real-time.”

    “The A7 has taken things to a new level,” said Jeff Smith, the chief executive of pioneering music app developer Smule in an email to AppleInsider.

    He added, “we’ve been trying to do real-time audio convolution on mobile devices. Audio convolution is one of the most CPU intensive tasks requiring massive amounts of matrix-math. Imagine trying to model how a sound wave will bounce off of several surfaces at different positions in a room. Simulating such acoustic environments has typically been reserved to workstations and cloud computing.

    “So, when we were able to first benchmark the A7 a few weeks ago, we were quite pleased to see the processing power from the clock speeds and enhanced pipeline. As a result, we were able to do real-time audio convolution in the palm of your hand.”

    Smule engineers noted that they were not able to get real-time audio convolution working on the iPhone 5 (or 5c), despite the phone being no slouch; both models are roughly comparable with Samsung’s Galaxy S4 in Geekbench 3.0 scores. Thus the company says that the ‘informal “benchmark’ of just running the Sing app with convolution reverbs ranged from simply not working at all on iPhone 5, while “on the 5S everything sounded smooth and silky.”

    Smule also sells Sing for Android on Google Play, but there the title notes, “the audio technology behind Sing! works best on newer devices, in particular Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, and other high-powered devices.” [B]The Android app also lacks support for real-time audio convolution[/B].

    In optimizing other titles for the A7, Smith noted, “we discovered an issue on the A7 with our Cinebeat product which does real-time audio and video process (also CPU intensive). It deadlocked as a set of processes that were never supposed to finish first suddenly did. We were shocked.”

    Further, the company noted that rendering in AutoRap “saw something close to a 7x speed-up” when running on the new A7 (which again has only been out for three weeks).

    • ratnok

      Did you seriously just quote from AppleInsider???
      Seriously? Do you even know what 64-bit is designed primarily to address? RAM bottlenecks above 4GB. There is nothing in what you posted that demonstrated any advances in performance due to 64-bit vs. 32-bit.
      Nothing.

      • zourite
        • ratnok

          Thanks for posting an Apple fanboy blog rant. He gets part of his post right, but part wrong. But of course, since he’s a card-carrying member of the iCult who writes books on Apple, it makes sense for him to make up stuff support where he gets part of his income.

          Next time, use an unbiased and more educated source.

          • endinyal

            Keep cherry-picking. While all you’re doing is essentially looking directly at your feet while walking, everyone else is seeing the bigger picture.

            However, your intense iHating mantra does provide for a good laugh.

      • tiger

        It is not the source…but READ the developer’s statements! Those quotes are from developers of BOTH Android and Apple. Stop being ignorant and READ dude. Ain’t that hard.

        It is clear that you are ignorant. No, they are making the apps A7-compatible NOW because there are CLEAR ADVANTAGES to doing so. READ. EDUCATE yourself. Stop being so damn blind.

        Remember, A7 is more than just 64-bit. Apple took the road less traveled and got amazing result, bar none. Qualcomm (and Samsung) went down a different route and got embarrassed (esp. in Samsung Octa design).

        Appreciate what is done. Don’t hate and just spit out ignorant stuff dude.

        • das

          pity smule cannot make iphone multitask :(

          • tiger

            Are you ok mentally? Yes, iPhone can multi-task.

  • Ryan Stewart

    Still a non story. He was right. Yes there is a move to 64bit coming as we need to address more memory but the the rest of the hardware in that phone limits it and its not upgradable. Its really just a push to get apps in line for the next few generations.

    • tiger

      No…read below. From developers’ mouths! A7 benefits can be seen NOW!

      • das

        yet iphone cant multitask or record 4k still :(

    • zourite

      No. Get your facts straight about ARMv8…

      • ratnok

        Why don’t you present some facts instead of just contradicting?

        • zourite
          • ratnok

            Ugh. An Apple fanboy, posting another Apple fanboy’s blog rant. He gets part of his post right, but part wrong. But of course, since he’s a card-carrying member of the iCult who writes books on Apple, it makes sense for him to make up stuff support where he gets part of his income.

            Next time, use an unbiased and more educated source.

          • tiger

            READ THIS:

            Smule also sells Sing for Android on Google Play, but there the title notes, “the audio technology behind Sing! works best on newer devices, in particular Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, and other high-powered devices.” [B]The Android app also lacks support for real-time audio convolution[/B].

            In optimizing other titles for the A7, Smith noted, “we discovered an issue on the A7 with our Cinebeat product which does real-time audio and video process (also CPU intensive). It deadlocked as a set of processes that were never supposed to finish first suddenly did. We were shocked.”

        • endinyal

          Yep… when presented with sound facts from non-Apple sites, you guys just resort to calling posters fanboys. All you’re doing is proving to everyone that it’s a simple case of iHating.

          But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of what you perceive to be the truth. Lighten up on the sugar in your koolaid.

  • TONY ALDO

    I want 4+ gigs of ram in my phone, until then this is just a marketing gimmick no matter how you put it. Put regular grade gas in a Ferrari and let me know how you feel about that.

    • ratnok

      Don’t tell “Tiger” below. He actually believes that the benefit of the A7 chip is due to the 64-bit integers, even with only 1GB of RAM.

      He also still believes in the tooth fairy.

      Don’t ruin his childhood.

      • zourite
        • ratnok

          Are you STILL posting Apple fanboy rants? This seller of iBooks gets a few points wrong, but here’s one of the parts that he gets EXACTLY RIGHT:

          “The simple fact of moving to 64-bit does little. It makes for slightly faster computations in some cases, somewhat higher memory usage for most programs, and makes certain programming techniques more viable. Overall, it’s not hugely significant.”

          Were you even awake to read the article that YOU posted?

          I guess you must have been sleep-reading.

          Wake up.

          • tiger

            Wake up? Does Anandtech need to wake up too?

            See: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

            Scroll to the bottom and see the difference in the nice table Anandtech made. 64 bit vs. 32 bit.

            Conclusion from Anandtech:

            “There are definitely reasons outside of needing more memory to go 64-bit.”

          • das

            and ios7 still cannot multitask or record 4k video :(

      • tiger

        And you still believe that A7 is marketing, right? No benefit whatsoever. Those developers on both OS are seeing the difference with A7. And they are finding out how EASY it is to make 64-bit apps to take advantage of what A7 has to offer.

        • das

          eyetracking > a7

      • tiger

        Smule also sells Sing for Android on Google Play, but there the title notes, “the audio technology behind Sing! works best on newer devices, in particular Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, and other high-powered devices.” [B]The Android app also LACKS support for real-time audio convolution[/B].

        In optimizing other titles for the A7, Smith noted, “we discovered an issue on the A7 with our Cinebeat product which does real-time audio and video process (also CPU intensive). It deadlocked as a set of processes that were never supposed to finish first suddenly did. We were shocked.”

        • das

          how much apple paying themto say that ? :)

    • zourite
    • tiger

      See: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

      Scroll to the bottom and see the difference in the nice table Anandtech made. 64 bit vs. 32 bit.

      Conclusion from Anandtech:

      “There are definitely reasons outside of needing more memory to go 64-bit.”

      • TONY ALDO

        Let’s put this all in retrospect ..Will this bring a huge performance boost to your Facebook, Instagram, Pintrest, etc etc apps. Probably not. Will it give your games a slight boost, yea probably. But the phone is still limited to the amount of ram it has. More ram = more programs that can run efficiently. Especially while using a 64bit processor.The bottle neck is the amount of ram. Time for removable memory :D …or maybe an app to visualize the ram.

        • endinyal

          You lose every argument when you bring up that lame 4GB RAM ceiling. Not even worth the effort explaining it to you.

          Look at what 64-bit processing does and how having less than 4GB RAM has zero impact. Jeez… there are articles like these all over the place, yet folks like you just want to look the other way and be in denial.

          http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

        • tiger

          READ up dude. Stop being blinded by your Android fanboyism. I have both OS in my house. I dislike 4″ screen and the walled ecosystem of Apple, BUT, i can appreciate where Apple did in fact destroy the competition with the A7. Your argument show your lack of understanding and basically regurgitate what other Android fanboys have said. It is WRONG. You are only making a fool of yourself.

          Read Anandtech…understand it. Anandtech is very legit and knowledgeable…and is basically a reference source.

          And read what developers of BOTH OS have to say about A7. There is no comparison b/w A7 and the best of Android S800s. At this time, A7 stands alone at the top…far at the top. There is simply no comparison in terms of A7’s capability vs. the best of Android (regardless of RAM and/or GHz).

          Now, when Bay Trail comes out with full 64-bit support and Android is up to 64 bit, then we can talk and debate. Until then, there is simply no argument. None.

          • rabidhunter

            Okay

      • rabidhunter

        Forget it dude

    • JBrowne1012

      Is that before or after the engine knocks?

      • TONY ALDO

        Lol after.

  • A_Noyd

    I am not an iFan, in fact, I pretty much hate Apple, However, the A7 is not marketing hype. I thought it was at 1st too. I was wrong. It follows the new Arm standard for 64bit. Also, it is made by Samsung. This new architecture brings way more than larger memory address space such as in Intel, and AMD processors. There are many upgrades on this ARM processor. Check out Anandtechs article on this chip; http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/2

  • rabidhunter

    At this rate the iPhone 6 will come with 2GB of RAM, still unable to fully utilize the 64bit processor, while Android phones will come out with 4GB RAM by this time next year and a 64bit processor fully able to take advantage of the processor.

    • tiger

      And still be lagging and stutter like the best of them! This is coming from Note 2 owner.

      • rabidhunter

        I’m sorry, tiger, lag and stuttering are a thing of the past. My DROID Mini can run circles around the iPhone. It’s fast with no lag or stutter. iCrap devices aren’t perfect, they can freeze with the best of them.
        So go troll somewhere else.

        • tiger

          Run circles? How? Based on what? CPU speeds? GPU capabilities? Display responsiveness?

          • rabidhunter

            Pretty much everything

          • tiger

            Ahh, got it.. You have no clue…just talking pure BS.

          • tiger

            Droid Mini…hahahaha, classic! Dude, what are you smoking?! Mid-range phone at best.

    • endinyal

      If you think going 64-bit is simply about that 4GB RAM, you really have zero clue. Educate yourself so you don’t come across as the typical clueless fandroid that inhabit these forums.

      http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

      http://www.realworldtech.com/arm64/

      http://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-qa-2013-09-27-arm64-and-you.html

      • rabidhunter

        Educate yourself http://www.ireallydontcare.com. Go troll somewhere else.

        • tiger

          You DO care…that is why you post here. Obviously, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

          • rabidhunter

            Keep calm

  • http://www.DavidPat.com David Pat

    I woke up this morning needing 16gb of RAM and a 4ghz SOC to check my e-mail because money is no object!

    As laptops get less powerful, phones get more powerful lol.

    • tiger

      Then get a flip phone…and then just walk uphill to school and back….

    • rstat1

      laptops are far from getting less powerful.

    • Steven Skwarkowski

      You’re lucky! I only have 16GB ram and 2.2Ghz i7.

      But lets be fare here. Its funny because people go buy new $600 cell phones (like me). But, Ill got buy a used gaming laptop for $800 (1/2 off). Consumers arent always the best with there money.

  • jpswain

    Apples A7 chip is actually manufactured by Samsung to Apples proprietary specifications.

    • tiger

      Yup…and Samsung can’t use the design.

      • das

        why would they ? samsung would just make a superior CPU if they wanted :) they make processors ,apple dont ,lool ,the exynos RAPED the iphone 5s A6

  • jpswain

    5:35 PM

    Apple may not like it but manufacturing partners like Samsung are hard to find. iFixitand Chipworks both teamed up to tear down the iPhone 5s and found that the device’s A7 processor was indeed manufactured by Apple’s longtime partner and more recent arch-nemesis Samsung. Chipworks says that it found design and manufacturing processes on the A7 that are unique to Samsung chips such as the Samsung Exynos Application processor found in the Galaxy S4. In addition to confirmation of Samsung manufacturing the A7 chip, we’ve also been hearing reports that Samsung will supply Apple with components for its second-generation iPad mini so it seems the companies still have a good working relationship with one another despite being at each others’ throats in both the marketplace and the courtroom.

    • tiger

      TSMC.

      • JBrowne1012

        troooll

  • tiger

    The problem is that Android has always been the king of specs, no matter how laggy it is. Android fanboys have been tooting the same horn over and over again. Specs are everything to Android fanboys. GHz, RAM, core count. These are what define Android. Horsepower, cylinder counts, and RPMs.

    A7 changed all that. A7 destroys the best of Android easily…all the while doing it with just pure utter efficiency…1.3GHz, dual core, and 1GB RAM. A7 just made Android top dog (Qualcomm S800) obsolete…S800 is the crown jewel of Android…the one that supposed to wipe the floor clean of all comers. And it did for a tiny bit…it destroyed Samsung Exynos Octa and made Ti went into retirement. Apple went a different route from Qualcomm and Samsung…they went the more efficient route…admittedly more expensive R&D route. Apple looked toward the future while still designing a dominating chip for today’s application. Apple caught everyone by surprise & flatfooted, even the folks who does the dirty work of making it (Samsung). It made such a surprise that Samsung had to run to the press to say that they are making a 64-bit too…but not sure when…sometime in the distant future. They can’t even confirm that GS5 will have it! Qualcomm has to come out and whine about it like a sore loser…and then have to backtrack a few days later to avoid being laughed at.

    In all this, many miss out on other innovations. AirDrop + iBeacon just made NFC obsolete…so much that Major League Baseball had to jump on the iBeacon bandwagon immediately!

    And what do we have now? Android phones going the route of iPhones. No removable battery (due to inefficiency and packaging). No SD card (due to security and volatile reasons). No FLASH (for security and battery draining reasons). Emphasis on software and hardware integration (see Moto X and Nexus).

    So, this bothers Android folks because they have no argument now…except for screen size! Lol. (A valid argument i agree.)

    • rabidhunter

      Chill

      • tiger

        Sad…your posts are good examples of ignorance breeding stupidity.

        • JBrowne1012

          Troooooooooooollin to the beat

    • Tim

      - Qualcomm800 version from the note 3 is not slower then the A7..
      And although I dont know about the 5S yet, the iphone 4, 4S and 5 lagg quite often with iOS7. Android lagg doesnt exist anymore if you run stock android or a ROM. If you still run touchwiz or other crappy company UIs, yes then it will lagg.

      -Also battery life in iOS7 is a joke, idle it gets like 2/3 of the time of a nexus4, which is considered to have a mediocre battery inside, so I wouldnt say android isnt optimized.

      -and 64bit still IS a gimmick, it’s just a necesary shift for the future, but 32 or 64bit CPU doesnt increase speed because its 64bit now… so yeah it’s still a gimmick for a while

      -The 2gb vs 1gb of RAM, will it”s simple, android runs too at 1GB of ram smoothly, but you can simply open a lot more apps with a 2GB android phone then a 1GB iphone…

      -No SD card is not for security, nor volatile reasons, it’s because google want to push the cloud, just as apple does it.
      Accepting a SDcard slot is the same as saying: i will never use the cloud

      -Google always did software and hardware integration, the nexus devices date from android 1.6, which was released 3 1/2 years ago

      • tiger

        Yes, Note 3 is slower on benchmarks than iPhone 5S in both CPU and GPU. Look it up. The ONLY time that Note 3 beats 5S in GPU is with CHEATING.

        I have lag on my Note 2 running TouchWiz and no rooting.

        iPhone 5S battery life is pretty darn good. The only ones beating it are the Notes, Droid MAXX, and LG G2. And yeah, 5S (and 5) kills Nexus 4 in battery life dude.

        See: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/9

        Not sure what you’re looking at. Lets keep “my neighbor’s iphone battery life sucks” out of this. Lets keep FACTS on the table. Anandtech is perfect for this.

        Gimmick? Dude, again?! I love this line of thought. Pure utter crap. Anandtech says otherwise. Yet, you guys ONLY listen when it applies to your fanboyism. Hell, even Qualcomm is now saying otherwise!!!!! Lol. Ignorance is bliss i guess.

        Sorry, my 5S does multi-tasking just fine. Same as Note 2. In fact, on my Note 2 (with Exynos 4), i get lagging whenever too many windows are open at the same time! So much for the great Android multitasking, huh?!

        No, GOOGLE says so about SD card. Horse’s mouth dude. And yeah, how many threads have you seen on Android (example, Note 2 forum) forums about “my SD card just crashed!” or “xxxx not recognizing my SD!”?? It’s volatile. Internal memory is much more stable AND faster to access. These are FACTS.

        And as for security, yeah, this is true. Mayor candidate Weiner would be in bigger trouble if someone got his SD card from his phone! Why? SD card stores your photos and videos. No one has to crack into your phone to get at your SD card.

        I am sure that cloud service is important, but it is also pretty clear that people need internal storage. Thus, despite offering Cloud service, Apple still offers 64GB storage. Same goes for HTC or maybe even the Nexus 5 being up to 32GB. No, Google is right…no SD equals better security (esp if Android wants to get into businesses!!!) and more stability. Think about this before responding.

        Well, lets face it…Nexus integrations have not been successful. My Nexus S 4G sucked royal balls! The problem was clearly that Android was not compatible with early Nexus phones. Nexus 4 was better, but piss poor battery life and OVERHEATING were clearly problematic! Nexus 4 is FAR from being an example of hardware and software integration!!!

        Anything else?

        • Tim

          Look the downgrade in battery life, and the LACKING important battery test from anandtech. The low load/idle test.
          You don’t ignore facts, problems with battery iOS7 is a very hot topic… Much phones beat the iphone in battery life
          http://tweakers.net/reviews/3212/2/apple-ios-7-een-nieuwe-iphone-voor-iedereen-accuduur-een-stuk-minder.html

          Note 3 wins.. gets 3000 points in geekbench 3, wins in futuremark, .. FACTS..
          http://cdn.thedroidguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Note-3-Geekbench.jpg

          Yeah running touchwiz will lagg, root your phone and it’s solved or get nova launcher if you dont want to root (but i dont see a reason not to do so)

          AQualcomm says nothing, they say it’s important getting 64bit because we are going to the 4GB ram shift, so we HAVE to go 64bit. It doesnt make phones faster….
          32bit CPUs were as fast as 64bit CPUs from the desktop world. Will they make a difference in the future, yes. But first years, no…
          When they will profit of it, the A7 will be too old to get real important benefits.

          If you want space go for the Meizu MX3 with 128GB of space of the S4 with 64GB sd expansion so will get even more.

          iOS7 gets FINALLY REAL multitasking now yes, once again its touchwizz that slows the device, get REAL android and you can open much more then your 5S.

          Google doesnt put in a SDcard because of the cloud… only the nexus one had one, and search for volatile complaints… none
          SD card is not slower if you buy class10 sd-cards, which are 50$ for 64GB…

          ROFL security to crack up a phone for sd-card. LOL

          Nexus 4 has great battery life considering its 2100mah size and hardware and screen dimensions (see link above) at less then 1/2 of the iphone price. go look for overheating iphones, you will find even more then nexus4’s..

          and hhow can android not be designed for nexus, WTF? Its the only phone that runs the new OSversion first every time…

          • tiger

            CHEATING. Really?! Are you ignorant or just pretend to be so?

            See: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/galaxy-note-3s-benchmarking-adjustments-inflate-scores-by-up-to-20/

            Ouch!

            No, Note 3 is behind iPhone 5S. FACT.

            Tell me ONE phone that has not had battery complaints. None. Well, maybe Droid MAXX. Lol. Even my Note 2 has had battery complaints by users on forums.

            BTW, Note 2 is ALL ABOUT multi-tasking! Geez.

            SD card corrupting: http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-note-2/709712-sgn2-making-sd-cards-corrupt.html

            The rest of what you posted is junk. Not one fact. Hell, you even posted the CHEATING SCORE of Note 3!! Lol. Embarrassed yet?

          • Tim

            It’s not a cheat… it”s a feature like intel/AMD has turbo boost and overclocks depending on its remaining TDP limits.
            LOL even without your so called ‘cheat’ it still gets 2500 points

            I dont say battery complaints, I say rather mediocre batterylife, and very bad idle battery life are a problem for a 650EURO phone. And a new iOS version with even lower batterylife…
            It’s just a fact that android has the better battery life for the most part, even considering they have a much larger display.
            Every android phone released after June has very good battery capacities:
            LG G2
            MEIZU MX3
            XPERIA Z1

            but even before there were some options like the LG P770 with 3500mah or the droids

          • tiger

            Lets review the facts…Note 3 fires up all cores to MAX speeds for the duration of benchmarking ONLY when THAT specific benchmark is running. It does NOT do this any other time, including during HD games.

            THAT is cheating. Now, if it does this on all games, then yeah, i agree with you, such as Intel turbo-boosting. IT DOES NOT. CHEATING.

            Are you ignorant to see it differently? Or are you blind? Either way, you’re wrong. ANANDTECH and ARSTECHNICA and pretty much everyone else call it CHEATING.

            Apple has NOT cheated…neither has Motorola and Nexus.

            Yes, it got BELOW 5S Geekbench scores, both single core and multi-core scores:

            5S = 1414 (single) and 2564 (multi)

            Note 3 = 901 (single) and 2487 (multi)

            Any questions? Go look it up. Note 3 ranks behind 5S. FACT.

            S800 was release to public in September…LG G2 was the first readily available phone with S800. Sony Z phablet was released in late August. A7 5S was released on September 10.

            Yeah, look at what it takes to beat iPhone battery life…over 3000 mAH batteries!! iPhone has around 1500 mAH. True, Androids have to push bigger screens with more resolution. But, the beauty of A7 is that it is able to get amazing class-leading performance with sipping battery due to its efficient design. No one else can come close to this.

            As for idling, my 5S rarely sips ANY % dude. Not sure what you’re talking about.

            No, you’re outdated. READ UP on A7 and stop making ignorant statements. ANANDTECH is a good place. :Lol.

          • JBrowne1012

            Troll bait

          • das

            using 64bit mode on CPU is cheating aswell :)

          • tiger

            READ this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

            It talks about advantages of 64-bit…from a reference source. PLEASE READ IT AND UNDERSTAND IT.

          • JBrowne1012

            trollololololing

          • das

            and read upon why phones have more than 1gb of RAM for REAL multitasking unlike iphones :)

          • tiger

            What happen? Still think that Note 3 beat iPhone 5S in Geekbench? Hahaha. You just got owned!

          • JBrowne1012

            Troooooooooooooooooooollololing

          • das

            but it has ,it boosts core clocks because it needed to ,same why iphone 5s boosts bitrate on its CPU to ” cheat ” :)

          • JBrowne1012

            Still trolling

          • tiger

            Let me ask you this…when 64-bit becomes common everywhere, which processor (A7 or Qualcomm S800) will still work well? Future proof…which will be more future proof?

            Since you say that Android will NEED 64-bit processor before Apple, then what does it say about the CURRENT Android phones with S800? Nexus 5 has S800. Are you saying that Nexus 5 (or Note 3 or LG G2) will be outdated even faster than iPhone 5S since 64-bit processing is a NEED on Android and thus will be beneficial in more ways??!!

            You can’t have it both ways! Gotcha! Either way, your argument is bad. Sorry.

            And yeah, again, according to developers of apps on BOTH OS, A7 is proving to be far better and allows them to do things that were impossible before (e.g. like real-time music analysis)!!

          • Tim

            they will both keep working 32 and 64 bit,

            and I already told so, when all apps are 64bit the A7 will be too dated to get full advantage and since these apps will use quite some more RAM, you’ll be stuck with your 1GB of ram.

            Have you used windows 32bit and 64bit, you saw a difference? No..

            It’s only when you use 4GB you will see the difference..

            Is there a difference below 4GB, yes, but it’s so small you can’t ‘feel’ it in real use.

            There is no need for now for android, its a need for 4GB android phones and till today there is not a single 4GB device, but considering the note 3 already got 3GB, you can imagine next year 4GB could be possible.

            The nexus5 will have 2GB, so I dont see a problem?

            Do things that were never before… thats so bullshit

            You can do everything with an 32cpu what you can do with an 64bit one..Including realtime music analysis
            Once again, for exemple, what cant you do on windows 32bit that you can on 64bit? nothing.. (except if you are going to use more then 4GB)

            You def did not ‘got me’

          • tiger

            I love it…still think that A7 is a gimmick despite all the evidence to say otherwise! Whatever you do to keep denying yourself of the truth!

            A7 difference is so small that no one can feel it…….except by DEVELOPERS who have come out to praise A7’s clear cut performance over all Android!!!! Facts are facts. Of course, the benchmarks clearly shows it.

            Did you even read ANANDTECH’s review of 5S? Or did you just assume that he is a iSHeep too?! Lol! Anandtech CLEARLY stated the advantages of 64-bit ARVv8 processor, well BEYOND the RAM requirement. READ THIS AGAIN TO UNDERSTAND.

            From DEVELOPER OF iOS and Android:

            Smule also sells Sing for Android on Google Play, but there the title notes, “the audio technology behind Sing! works best on newer devices, in particular Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, Nexus 7, Nexus 10, and other high-powered devices.” [B]The Android app also LACKS support for real-time audio convolution[/B]. <—-READ THIS

            In optimizing other titles for the A7, Smith noted, "we discovered an issue on the A7 with our Cinebeat product which does real-time audio and video process (also CPU intensive). It deadlocked as a set of processes that were never supposed to finish first suddenly did. We were shocked."

          • das

            so why is ios7 laggy ? :)

          • JBrowne1012

            trolling

          • http://macgeeky.no/ Robert Sørensen

            Each time a good argument comes you call him a troll… @Tiger is using facts as arguments, you are just being an ass an calling him a troll. Go figure!

          • das

            so u admit all iphones earlier. than iphone 5s will be useless and a brick ? loool idiot

          • tiger

            The difference is that Apple is able to make software compatible with their hardware…since they control both. Android can’t. What is good for one hardware is not good for another…look at how many chips are in Androids.

            And yeah, once all apps go 64-bit, the prior gen iPhones may suffer issues (lag, memory issue, etc.). This is why ANANDTECH calls 5S the most future-proof phone to date.

            Can you say the same about Nexus 5, Note 3, LG G2?

            Two years from now, which do you think will still run smoothly on all apps and software…iPhone 5S or LG G2? Hell, we all know that LG won’t update after 12 months! Same for Note 3. Lol. That is just sad.

        • das

          and 64bit tests on benchmarks isnt cheatingf ? lool dobule standards ,boosting core clocks or boostingf the bitrate for benchies ,either way its both “cheating”

          • tiger

            Stupidity at its best. Thanks for the laugh!

      • tiger
    • khha4113

      From ABI Research,

      “When comparing the latest offerings, Google (Motorola Mobility)
      trumps Apple in engineering design and creativity reports ABI Research.
      Apple’s latest offerings, IPhone 5c and IPhone 5s, show only minor
      improvements over last year’s iPhone 5 while Motorola Mobility’s 3rd
      quarter offering, the Moto X, shows a number of creative engineering
      solutions.

      The iPhone 5c simply sports a new housing material in a variety of
      colors. The 5s keeps the original housing but adds finger print ID, a
      sensor hub, and a dual-core 64b processor: all of which have all been
      seen before. Finger print ID was first introduced in handsets by
      Motorola a few years back on the ATRIX HD 4G; sensor hubs have been
      populating most of the new smartphones throughout all of 2013 (STm being
      one of the popular ones); and the 64b processor is just Apple’s way of
      providing more processing power. Other suppliers have elected to add
      cores (4 and even 8 cores are available) to accomplish the same result.
      Either more bits or more cores add significant performance but the
      trade-off is always current drain. The A7 processor drew 1100mA during
      fixed point operations and 520mA during floating point operations. The
      iPhone 5 drew 485mA and 320mA for the same test.

      In comparison, the Moto X features innovations such as always-on
      voice commands, ergonomic form factor, and a much underrated display are
      a few of the attributes that set the Moto X a step above the rest. Jim
      Mielke, VP of engineering at ABI Research comments: “Features like
      always-on voice commands typically would draw too much current to be
      practical, but the Moto X accomplishes the task with 4.5mA allowing the
      phone to maintain over 200hrs of standby time. The display is a bigger
      surprise though—the Moto X display draws 68mA at low output levels and
      only 92mA at high output levels, making it a new standard for high
      output level current drain.” The iPhone 5s draws 80mA and 220mA (~2.5
      times as much as the Moto X) while sporting 20% fewer pixels.

      The combination of solid engineering, creative features, and timely
      introduction of those features was Apple’s trademark but it has faded in
      this category over the last two years. Q3 2013 marks the start of
      another potential company that has put together that rare combination of
      traits that bring user friendly, innovative, practical products to
      market.”

      • tiger

        Hahaha…hilarious! Again, lets talk REAL-LIFE PERFORMANCE. Anandtech dude.

        • JBrowne1012

          troll

          • http://macgeeky.no/ Robert Sørensen

            Why is he a troll? Because he’s got a different opinion than you? You should look up what a troll actually is – you look more like a troll by not posting any facts, just calling people trolls…

    • das

      when IOS can do multitasking without lag let me knmow :) oh wait ,it cant multitask at all loool

      • tiger

        I see you as some punk kid with their jeans down halfway to their knees walking around the mall with a comb in his hair.

  • tiger

    Want to know several TRUE gimmicks?

    1. NFC…obsolete thanks to Apple’s AirDrop and iBeacon. NFC is dead tech…same as Google Wallet, which is already dead to most carriers (ATT and Verizon).

    2. Face recognition…that’s just a 2nd rate effort! Useless. And Android fanboys complain about TouchID! Funny. Can’t replace a finger, but i guess major plastic surgery can change your mug! Pattern Unlock is even easier to break in!

    3. Eye following crap from Samsung…geez, never got it to work in real-life under real lighting on my Note2. This is probably winner of crappy gimmicks of all time!

    4. How many Android camera “innovations” are we going to have before anyone settles on the right combination?! Ultra-Pixel…Clear Pixel…13MP…20MP oversampling….etc.all with major deficits for the average user. You would think someone would get it right seeing how many manufacturers have jumped in with cool phrases!

    Yet, it is Apple that is lying to the public and putting up gimmicks. Geez. Open your eyes. You know…iPhone display may be low in resolution, but you know what…Apple concentrated on what is MOST important to users:

    1. Brightness for outdoor viewing…battery wasting effort, but since Apple hardware is so damn efficient, AUTO setting on iPhones is actually USEFUL! Shocking! I have never had an Android phone with an AUTO brightness setting that works! NEVER. Android AUTO is always too slow to react, too weak when you need it most, or just simply not work at all (see LG G2!).

    2. Color reproduction. Why can’t other companies get it right from factory? I see that Samsung is getting around to it FINALLY! LG G2 is still off. Moto…well, lets move on!

    3. Responsiveness. Again, nothing Apple does is new anymore…yet, Android is sluggish and slow to respond, even with all those cores and GHz’s. Recently, it was shown that Apple display responds more than 2 times faster than the best Android! WTF?! That’s just plain stupid.

    So, while iPhone screens are small (true), their display is still Retina-quality (no pixelation from viewing distance) and true to life. Gimmick? Pushing pixels beyond the human eye capability without proper calibration is a gimmick!

    • JBrowne1012

      Get out of here troll.
      1. You’ve never owned an android device.
      Point blank and don’t act as you have please.

      • tiger

        I have no idea what you wrote…was that English?

        But, yeah, i do in fact own Note 2 16GB on Sprint network. Idiot. Don’t call people out.

        Feel free to disprove what i wrote.

    • das

      IOS 7s sluggish ,its killed most peoples iphones and destoryed their batteryr life ,IOS7 is a ICS wannabe with its multitasking attempts ,but it still fails because galazy phones DO REAL multitasking ,lool apple cannot ,because iphone dont know how to make software like samsung galaxy do ,retina display is a gimick ,lool full hd amoled is innovation ,must suck to be apple thathas top BUY all their hardware from samsung ,such as CPU and displays

      • tiger

        I have Galaxy Note 2 with Exynos 4. Multi-tasking does indeed cause lagging. Touchwiz? Are you on drugs?! That’s about as funny as your comment about battery life! ANANDTECH review dude. READ it and UNDERSTAND it before posting crap.

        And yeah, iPhone 5S and iOS7 does multi-task well. Smoother than my Note 2 in fact. Ouch.

        AMOLED HD…yeah, the most useless technology in the real world (like outside your house!). THAT is a gimmick in the worst way!I think that Samsung has FINALLY fixed that major defect in the Note 3.

        Apple gets their display from Samsung? Weird how Samsung got blindsided by A7 64-bit despite being the manufacturer! Ouch!

        To answer your stupid answer below…A7 is not considered cheating dumba$$! 64-bit (or more accurately, ARMv8 and 64-bit) is a system wide enhancement (to put it simply). Samsung (and most Androids) boost their processor UNNATURALLY with benchmarking ONLY. At no other time (as in Note 3 case) does the processor work that hard. THAT is cheating. Apple does NOT do this. A7 processor is fast depending on task, NOT on specific benchmarks. Try and understand that please…you’re sounding like a blind Android fanboy with no knowledge!

  • Ridley

    Wow… let’s all take a step back for a second and look at the real picture. Am I the only person here that is scared to think that there are other people out there that dedicate ALL of their free time to support a company while trolling on an opposing website? Whether it is PC / Mac, PS3 / Xbox 360, Android / iPhone, American Cars / European Cars, it really makes no difference. They all have their perks.

    Tiger, you should be embarrassed of yourself. I think you may need to get some counselling. Look how many times you posted in this thread, copying links, and throwing out facts you know little about. I had to show everyone at work, because no one would believe me. This isn’t even about phones, is it? You need something to hold on to, because you probably feel inferior as a person. Go outside! Try to meet new people and make some life-long friends. You don’t have to be alone anymore. I’m pulling for you, buddy.

    • tiger

      Oh come on…insulting me ain’t gonna get you brownie points. You actually spent your time writing ALL THAT on a tech blog? Writing 3 huge paragraphs to insult someone is kinda pathetic.

      Why don’t you bring some facts? Facts i know little about? Show me…educate me where i got things wrong.

      You’re just scared that i will expose your lack of intelligence on the matter.

      • Ridley

        I have a Galaxy S3. When I’m ready to get a new phone in a year, I’ll come at you with facts. As of right now, I only read this site to find new apps to install.

  • The Phenom

    All phones rely on a gimmick of some sort no matter if it is the IPhone, Windows or Android the only chip won’t make or break the industry so what does it truly matter. Thave have “future proofed” the I5 till what the next new chip rolls out. Or the I6. De La Soul said it best hype is wrong when hype is written. Android fanboys cheer for articles like this when just like Apple fanboys did over the fingerprint scanner wasn’t the first time it had every been done. If the CMO called it a gimmick it is what he claimed it to be. or else they wouldn’t of went into damage control over his statement.